Willbird

I have a couple 2001 Trek Multitrack bikes, one I ride now and maybe setting one up for a winter bike.

A LBS says he can do a 3 speed hub using my existing 32 spoke rim and spokes for $100, but I am really considering going to a flip flop hub with maybe a single speed freewheel on one side and a fixed gear on the other (I did read what Sheldon Brown says about that idea, and I'm open to just doing a fixed gear on both sides with different sprockets). Would presume to use a chain tensioner due to lack of horizontal dropouts.

My existing crankset is 28/38/48 so maybe just use the 38 tooth sprocket ?

I'm not crazy about having the Shimano 3 speed stuff hanging out in the breeze on the end of the axle, but maybe it would grow on me ?? Also not really interested on coaster brake either, just thinking on it anyway :-). It is not super hilly here, I can climb any hill around here now 38/23 for the most part.

I'd prefer to retain QR setup too for a variety of reasons.


Bill

FBinNY 

Doesn't matter which hub you use, and feel free to set yup the bike however you choose...

BUT

You cannot set up a fixed wheel with a chain tensioner. Fixed wheels require the ability for either the upper or lower chain loop to be the driving (tight) side. That's not possible with a spring tensioner, and would tear apart a frame mounted fixed tension arm.

There was (is) one tensioner that could handle this. It was an adjustable, fixed distance device that rode between the upper and lower loops, and would rise and fall as the tension was transferred one to the other. A sliding arm attached it to the chainstay and kept it vertical.

If you cannot find or build a tensioner of this type, you have to either seek out sprocket sizes that serendipitously yield the right chain length, or stick to freewheel drive.

JohnDThompson 

How 'bout a floating chainring?

AnkleWork

That kind.

fietsbob

Or why even flip?
Sram site has a Hub that you turn a long screw in to lock the unlocked hub.. back it out to unlock..

and S-A S3X hubs take a 9 spline fixed cog or a screw in freewheel..

+ a generic Freewheel hub will take a single speed freewheel just fine, and be found for Free.
Btw, there are guards that protect the shift chain on 3 speed hubs..

I would have thought you got over just throwing your bike willy-nilly down on the front lawn
and running into the house, a Long time ago...

FBinNY 

Definitely an option, and requires less serendipity because changing the size or moving it forward or back can adjust for just about any chain length take up. Works the same way as the device I described, allowing the upper and lower loops to reverse roles without change in length or strain on a fixed arm.

The drawback is that the chainstay is often in the way taking this option off the table.

Willbird

Thinking is dangerous :-) but I was thinking the flip flop hub would give me a wheel with no dish :-) ?Maybe easier to build if I decide to make it my first shot at wheel building ?

fietsbob

dumpster recycled a 5 speed freewheel wheel into a single speed
with a shuffling of axle spacers and the spoke wrench.
de dished the spoke tension, screwed on a freewheel and that was It.
many Common freewheel hubs internally, are like a flip-flop, symmetrical,
just the left end of the hubs doesn't get threaded..

Re Chain and verticals ,You might be able to fake it with a half link in a 1/8" chain to the nearest 1/2" of length.

Magic combinations +\- 1t on the front or rear , have managed reasonable chain lengths, before.

Sixty Fiver

If you want a three speed for winter riding I'd pick an older Sturmey Archer over a Shimano as they allow for the use of synthetic oil which will keep it running smoothly in the coldest weather you could ever ride in.

A fixed gear normally needs a horizontal dropout, track ends, or an eccentric bottom bracket or hub so that the chain can be tensioned.

With that being said, my winter bikes are a 3 speed (Sturmey Archer), fixed gear, and a derailleur equipped bicycle.

Willbird

Thanks so much for all the info :-)

Willbird

Depends where your at if you have to take a leak hehe ;-)

Bill

Willbird

That is a cool hub :-)...thanks for the info....ignorance (mine) on a subject is a terrible thing, and should be squared away promptly :-).

Ouchie on the price though :-). 193 on Amazon

Lots of the other hub options are a lot cheaper, a plain non coaster brake hub would probably be just fine.

Wow SA really has some cool stuff :-). Lots nicer looking installation than the Shimano IMHO.

Bill

fietsbob

& S-A sells small parts.. for their stuff , particularly the AW3.. every small part is offered.

Willbird

So exposing my total ignorance here, if I wanted an S-RF3 to fit my 8 speed width rear dropouts, would I get the 175mm axle ? Outside to outside the dropouts measure 150mm, that would leave me 12.55mm on each side for a nut ?

The one on Amazon says it is 127mm over the locknuts, so I would use spacers (I have a lathe and a mill in the garage) to get to what should be 135mm inside my dropouts ?

Pardon me if I am totally missing the boat here somehow :-). I presently have 32 spoke rims but if I build a complete wheel 36 would be fine.

But here is the same thing in 32H

https://www.bikeparts.com/search_resu...p?ID=BPC155108


Bill

fietsbob

Over lock nut = the width inside the rear of the frame dropouts .. the axle nuts go on the rest of the axle extending past the locknuts, on the outside .

the shifting chain on the right is matched to the axle width on that side

your picture link shows some nuts, inboard , on the axle, ends of those is the over lock nut width
fixing wheel on bike hardware, not shown

The hole count in the rim and hub should match. In IGH most common is 36..

some products are offered in 32 hole ..
( Rohloff's Hubs were only 32 hole for a long time, as they substitute for a whole MTB drivetrain, their initial target market.
people used them in tandems, so now they also offer a 36 hole shell )

for small wheels a 28 spoke hub is offered (Bromptons 16" wheels use 28 hole hubs)

Willbird

My width INSIDE is 135mm. So is there a simple SA freewheel hub (Am I using the wrong term there, I just want it to coast, no brake ?) that will work ?

Yes I do understand a 32 rim would need a 32 hub :-)...or the 36 hub would need a 36 rim :-).

Here is a 32H disk brake hub which is 135mm ?

Sturmey Archer 3-speed alloy disc hub, 32h - silver, Hubs

Would there be any harm in using it without any brake disk ?

Bill

fietsbob

nah just leave the disc Off .. Steel frames can be bent inward and spread, aka "cold setting"

people do that to stuff in new wider wheels in older frames

You might also be able to add some spacers to the left axle , limited by the axle lenght available of course
building the wheel to be centered between the 2 over lock nut ends..

Buying online is a bit of a handicap in measuring things.. the Company website may be more informative

Sturmey Archer

Willbird

also they make a cassette hub, that may be 135mm(on phone now not desktop) that would allow using 1 or two cogs and spacers to help acquire nice chainline ?

say using a Nasbar double crank and having a cog for each chainring ?

fietsbob

You have to use the whole cassette driver , there is no narrower one, though you could break up a cassette and use just a few cogs..

But you lose one of the best features of an IGH, shifting while stopped.. and the 1 thick cog lasts longer than thin ones, and just costs a fiver.

White industries 'Dos' is a 2 speed freewheel that is no wider than a single, to screw on freewheel hubs..

My Brompton now uses an internal gear Crankset (+the 3 speed hub),so the chainring turns at a different rate than the crank arms.

internal gears change with a hesitation of power input, derailleurs obviously have to be all rotating annd you Moving..

Sram and S-A now both make a hybrid hub .. so rather than a triple crankset , the 3 chainrings are the internal gears in the hub,

And there is an 8 0r 9 speed cassette on the Freehub driver assembly.

You know Nashbar is just a big enough seller to get stuff printed with their name on it , they don't make anything, right?

Willbird

Yea I'm cool with what Nashbar is , and old enough to remember what they used to be. Their website is easily navigated for ideas tho. I would look for a sealed BB and cranks to fit it. I often have a look at Nashbar then dig around elsewhere when it is time to buy.

if I Can find the disk brake 135mm hub and all the other bits it looks like a winner , hate to cold forge the frame really :-).

SlowJoeCrow

If you are willing to spend serious money a White Industries ENO hub might be the answer since they incorporate an eccentric in the hub t set chain tension and come in 135mm OLD in several configurations.

Willbird

i did see that, and it is a very nice option, but overall the budget is not quite that robust, very nice part though :-)

tFUnK

Had one of these on a SS MTB back in the day and it popped off when I hit a bump and flew into my rear wheel, severing mangling 2 spokes in the process.

JohnDThompson 

Ain't no free lunch, I guess...