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Wheelbuilding: 36h, 70mm hub flange, 543 mm rim ERD (26"): 3-cross or 2-cross?

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Wheelbuilding: 36h, 70mm hub flange, 543 mm rim ERD (26"): 3-cross or 2-cross?

Old 08-08-14, 02:08 PM
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J.C. Koto
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Wheelbuilding: 36h, 70mm hub flange, 543 mm rim ERD (26"): 3-cross or 2-cross?

I have a wheelbuilding question:

For a 36 spoke wheel with a hub flange diameter of 70mm and rim ERD of 543mm (26" rim), can one safely build with 3-cross lacing or is 2-cross better?

I was originally going to be using a 32 spoke hub/rim and was advised that 2-cross might be better for this wheel since its a 26" rim and the hub flange is a bit bigger than typical so there might be issues with the spoke angle coming from the hub. I don't know if that also applies to otherwise the same components but in the 36 spoke versions.

The hub is a Shimano Dynohub DH-3N72 laced to a 26" Alex Adventurer rim with 543mm ERD.

Bonus question: Either way, are there any real drawbacks with going with a 2-cross 36 spoke wheel?

Last edited by J.C. Koto; 08-08-14 at 02:22 PM.
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Old 08-08-14, 02:29 PM
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I would use whichever one gets the spokes closer to being perfectly tangential to the hub -- that's the real goal, not achieving a certain number of spoke crossings.
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Old 08-08-14, 02:42 PM
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Not really.. either 3 or 2 cross is fine .. 36 hole can be laced 4 cross too ( Max tangental )

eliminating the flange pull through by the spoke.. since the 1st cross is the nearby spoke to the opposite side of the rim..

tensions on the flange are in compression between them.. rather than shear .. at its most extreme .. with Radial lacing..

got 3x 32 spole 26" SON hub, and 1 cross 28 in the Brompton-Shimano dynohub ..

running a 20" Rohloff . its 1X .. Bike Friday basket wove that cross but R'off didn't recommend it
( BF said they would stand behind their choice, so that was Fine.. )
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Old 08-08-14, 02:43 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott View Post
I would use whichever one gets the spokes closer to being perfectly tangential to the hub -- that's the real goal, not achieving a certain number of spoke crossings.
Yes, that was the main point of my question. I was advised, all things being equal, going with a 32 spoke wheel, 3-cross would most likely have the spokes exiting the hub and hitting the subsequent spoke heads due to the angle. I'm asking if this would also be true for a 36 spoke wheel as well since, far as I can tell, there is no easy way to determine this.

Originally Posted by me
[...]there might be issues with the spoke angle coming from the hub. I don't know if that also applies to otherwise the same components but in the 36 spoke versions.
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Old 08-08-14, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
got 3x 32 spole 26" SON hub, and 1 cross 28 in the Brompton-Shimano dynohub ..
Do you happen to know which SON or at least the flange diameter? According to this site they vary between 54mm and 70mm
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Old 08-08-14, 02:50 PM
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the 1st spoke cross in a 4 cross, 1 is head out and its opposite head in. so they are on opposite sides of the flange..

the 1 SON is the 6 bolt Classic in the 26" rim , the other , a Son Delux disc in a 406 rim , both 3X , basket weave on the last cross.

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Old 08-08-14, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
36 hole can be laced 4 cross too
Are you sure? I know it can with a 65mm flange, but with 70mm might limit you to 3x. I could be wrong.
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Old 08-08-14, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
the 1st spoke cross in a 4 cross, 1 is head out and its opposite head in. so they are on opposite sides of the flange..

the 1 SON is the 6 bolt Classic in the 26" rim , the other , a Son Delux disc in a 406 rim , both 3X , basket weave on the last cross.
OK, thank you.
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Old 08-08-14, 03:22 PM
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I built my S-A 70mm X-RD drum freewheel hub up 4 cross , 20 years ago

still OK , just replaced a broken NDS spoke 8 years ago ..

spoke hole 'Pitch Circle Diameter - 89.8mm '

https://www.sturmey-archer.com/produc...2/specs/1.html
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Old 08-08-14, 03:38 PM
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I'm not going to lay this out, but my general guideline is that I don't want spokes more than 1-1/2 or 2" from the hub's center. That's roughly comparable to building 36h 4x on a classic large flange hub. So very large flanges usually call for fewer crosses.

The reason is that when spokes are too far from radial, the spoke/nipple alignment at the rim will be problematic. On very tight wheels, spoke twist with misalignment bends the spoke back and forth at the nipple and leads to breakage at the 1st thread.

On any given rim, you can thread a single spoke and nipple, which will naturally take a radial line, then bend it off radial and see how much movement the spoke hole will accommodate. Use that as your working guideline.
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Old 08-08-14, 04:09 PM
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Thank you FB
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