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80s Japanese Fuji BB replacement suggestion?

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80s Japanese Fuji BB replacement suggestion?

Old 08-24-14, 11:09 AM
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JoePeri
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80s Japanese Fuji BB replacement suggestion?

So I've been riding an early 80s Fuji S-12S for some years now and replacing things as they wear out. Anyway, it is time for the BB to get some attention. I really would rather put in a cartridge sealed BB type than deal with servicing it the old fashioned way.
(Bike specs)

I pulled the cranks off and took some measurements with digital calipers.

Spindle: 124.8mm, this doesn't include the screw heads which would put it to 145.78mm.
(the old design here uses nuts that screw onto the spindle instead of bolts that go into the spindle to hold the cranks on. So I think 125mm is probably the number here.)

BB shell: 70mm

Since this is Japanese, I assume English threading in there and not Italian. So this is a weird one with the 70mm shell?

Doesn't look like Shimano offers exactly what I would need in a cartridge.

Questions:

Just use Shimano UNxx 68x123mm? The BB will seat into the shell past the ends a bit, right?

Or something like one of these Velo Orange Threadless in 123mm or 127mm?

Anyone have success with replacing the cartridge in one of these Fujis!? Maybe I could just take a flat file to the shell and shave off 1mm from each side as another option?

Thanks!
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Old 08-24-14, 11:24 AM
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if i had 1mm extra space on both sides (assuming symmetrical here) then i would go for the 28x123. i wouldn't even worry about the shell. IME, it hasn't been an issue.
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Old 08-24-14, 11:29 AM
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Remove the spindle and look for a "code" such as 3-S, 3-P etc.
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Old 08-24-14, 11:32 AM
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A shop can face it for you down to 68 mm which is probably the best long-term fix. Here is a thread on this issue:

http://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...nese-bike.html
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Old 08-24-14, 11:55 AM
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Fuji definitely did produce some 70mm shell bikes. You need to make sure that whatever BB you use has the correct chainline - the length of the spindle is not the only consideration, especially fitting a 68mm to a 70 shell.

Measure the distance from the right side of the BB shell to the end of the axle. Then determine which type taper you have: Square Taper Bottom Bracket Interchangeability.

When you find a candidate spindle/cartridge make sure it has the proper specs compared to your original BB. The Velo Orange with a 1 mm spacer may be the best option, but one other possibility (found in Google search for 70mm cartridge) is a 70 x 122.5 with a 2 mm spacer, but you may need to check what the spacing will be for the left crank arm.
Shimano UN55 Square Taper Bottom Bracket in Tree Fort Bikes Bottom Brackets (cat1209)

The other option of course is to replace with cup and cone, using the code stamped on the spindle to determine what you need. That's not necessarily an easy solution, as those parts are becoming increasingly hard to find.
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Old 08-24-14, 06:58 PM
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Thanks for the replies. Man, I am still confused as to the best option. I am actually a bit hesitant to pull apart the BB until I have a plan since I rely on this bike so much. I also don't want to bother taking it to the LBS for the same reason and have it out of commission for a week or so, which is the usual wait time here.

I think I am going to take a chance on ordering a 68mm x 127.5mm Shimano and try it. The chain line, I measured it once, and I think it was 45mm. However, this bike is all friction shifters and I hope the front derailleur and the chainrings (it is a triple) won't have a problem if things are 1-2mm off from what they were.

Edit: anyone out there actually replace a 70mm shell English threaded BB with a 68mm without refacing?

Last edited by JoePeri; 08-24-14 at 06:59 PM. Reason: added question
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Old 08-24-14, 07:55 PM
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If you fit a Shimano UN-5X cartridge bottom bracket, the nds cup does not have a flange and can be threaded in far enough to space properly even if the bb shell is a bit wide.
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Old 08-24-14, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
If you fit a Shimano UN-5X cartridge bottom bracket, the nds cup does not have a flange and can be threaded in far enough to space properly even if the bb shell is a bit wide.
That's what I was thinking as I read this thread. Kind of the opposite problem but my ol' Bridgestone MB-1 has a 68mm shell and I have to use two spacers with Hollowtech II cranks on the non-drive side to get a decent chainline. It's asymmetrical, but I've gotten over it.
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Old 08-24-14, 08:52 PM
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I had a bike once with a 66 mm bottom bracket. It took me a while to figure out why I couldn't get the adjustment right . . .
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Old 08-24-14, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
If you fit a Shimano UN-5X cartridge bottom bracket, the nds cup does not have a flange and can be threaded in far enough to space properly even if the bb shell is a bit wide.
my thoughts too. it should be no problem. probably shouldn't have measured the shell at all. although i would go with the BB that is closest to the measurement. again, assuming there are no clearance issues.
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Old 08-24-14, 10:02 PM
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I am in the process of rebuilding a Fuji Touring Series III. This has a triple Suguino crank on it. The original BB spindle is a JIS "3R" and I went to Sheldon Brown site cheat sheet but didn't see a listing for it. I bought a Sunlite "Square-Comp" sealed cartridge BB with 127mm symmetric spindle which seems a bit short on the drive side. I guess the drive side is what locates the spindle, so the question is where your NDS crank ends up. I put my cranks on and on mine, I have a 42mm front chainline which seems a little narrow. When my new chain and freewheel come in I am going to remount the DT shifters and see how it performs as is (I already put on the FD and it looks like it will work). I think I can put a spacer on the DS and move the chainline out a little if I need to.

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Old 08-24-14, 11:16 PM
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I would think you can interpolate R vs RR to T vs TR.
Sheldon Brown's Bottom Bracket Size Database

In this case, the DS offset is 42mm which would make a 136mm symmetric equivalent BB.
ERGO, using a 127mm BB would leave the DS spindle 4.5mm short.
Possibly you could live with that if you don't have chain ring/crank interference with the stays.

IF your cups are good, maybe a 3U would work?
http://www.huskybicycles.com/mm5/mer...y_Code=BBPARTS

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Old 08-25-14, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
A shop can face it for you down to 68 mm which is probably the best long-term fix. Here is a thread on this issue:

http://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...nese-bike.html
Sure, but why bother? Just use a spindle designed for a 70mm shell.
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Old 08-25-14, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
I would think you can interpolate R vs RR to T vs TR.
Sheldon Brown's Bottom Bracket Size Database

In this case, the DS offset is 42mm which would make a 136mm symmetric equivalent BB.
ERGO, using a 127mm BB would leave the DS spindle 4.5mm short.
Possibly you could live with that if you don't have chain ring/crank interference with the stays.

IF your cups are good, maybe a 3U would work?
Husky Bicycles: Bottom Bracket Parts
Just put a spacer under the drive side cup. I do it all the time. If the spindle is the correct length (or close), then a spacer gives you the asymmetry. Assumes a UN26 or similar cartridge bb. Tightening ring? Isn't one. There's just a plastic adjustable cup.

Last edited by wrk101; 08-25-14 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 08-25-14, 08:02 AM
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You do it all the time on a 70mm shell and a 68mm BB? A 2mm spacer would move the tightening ring in a total of 4mm.
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Old 08-25-14, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
A shop can face it for you down to 68 mm which is probably the best long-term fix.
Agreed; take your bike to a bike shop and have them face 1mm off the drive side (you can do both sides if you wish, but the drive side will fix the problem. Then you can use a standard 3NN spindle with your (old or get new) British cups. . To be sure of the spindle size, go to the Sheldon Brown BB size site scroll down to the spindle diagram and get the "C" length from your spindle. http://sheldonbrown.com/bbsize.html

Last edited by onespeedbiker; 08-25-14 at 01:22 PM.
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Old 08-25-14, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
I would think you can interpolate R vs RR to T vs TR.
Sheldon Brown's Bottom Bracket Size Database

In this case, the DS offset is 42mm which would make a 136mm symmetric equivalent BB.
ERGO, using a 127mm BB would leave the DS spindle 4.5mm short.
Possibly you could live with that if you don't have chain ring/crank interference with the stays.

IF your cups are good, maybe a 3U would work?
Husky Bicycles: Bottom Bracket Parts
Thanks for the link. I wasn't thinking of keeping the cups, but if this doesn't work I will reconisder and give it a shot.

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Old 08-25-14, 07:59 PM
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some vintage bikes have cable guides on the bottom of bb that are held on with a press fit stud. i found the stud extends so far it prevents the install of the cartridge type bb. i have drilled the studs out and then drilled and taped. no idea if it is a problem with your fuji.
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Old 08-26-14, 02:48 PM
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FWIW, I put a Shimano UN26 bb, 68-122.5 on my Fuji S12S. I put a 2.5mm spacer under the drive side, then reinstalled the Fuji pantographed triple crankset that came with the bike. Spacing looked pretty darn close to ideal.

No under the BB cable guides on that era Fuji, all are above the BB shell.
YMMV.
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Old 08-26-14, 04:36 PM
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Are you sure you have to replace the BB, rather than just cleaning it out and repacking with fresh bearings and grease?
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Old 08-26-14, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by RubeRad View Post
Are you sure you have to replace the BB, rather than just cleaning it out and repacking with fresh bearings and grease?
Thank you! I have been scrolling through a litany of responses that are more expensive and time consuming than simply repacking the old BB. For someone experienced, it is 30 minute job, or about as much time as required to install a new so-called 'sealed' BB. And if installed right, the older cup 'n cone BB's were certainly smoother than the cartridge units.

About the worst thing that could happen is that you find that the balls are square, and the spindle is pitted. Then it is time to buy new balls ($5) and a new spindle ($15). If you find it impossible to find a replacement spindle, then you should invoke Plan C: then go for a cartridge.
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Old 08-26-14, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by wrk101 View Post
FWIW, I put a Shimano UN26 bb, 68-122.5 on my Fuji S12S. I put a 2.5mm spacer under the drive side, then reinstalled the Fuji pantographed triple crankset that came with the bike. Spacing looked pretty darn close to ideal.

No under the BB cable guides on that era Fuji, all are above the BB shell.
YMMV.
Sweet - does your S12-S have a triple like mine?

(Edit: OK, you answered that already, I didn't see it at first. Even better that your Fuji also has probably the same triple crank. The new BB arrived, so I will try it and post later in the week)

I went ahead and ordered a 68x127mm cartridge so we'll see what happens! I have no spacer, so since my spindle is a tad longer it might work out as well.

Last edited by JoePeri; 08-28-14 at 07:15 AM. Reason: modified comment
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Old 08-26-14, 05:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Thank you! I have been scrolling through a litany of responses that are more expensive and time consuming than simply repacking the old BB. For someone experienced, it is 30 minute job, or about as much time as required to install a new so-called 'sealed' BB. And if installed right, the older cup 'n cone BB's were certainly smoother than the cartridge units.

About the worst thing that could happen is that you find that the balls are square, and the spindle is pitted. Then it is time to buy new balls ($5) and a new spindle ($15). If you find it impossible to find a replacement spindle, then you should invoke Plan C: then go for a cartridge.
Yeah, well, I do plan to keep all the parts anyway just in case!

I want to see if the sealed cartridge solution worked for anyone since I want to just simply replace it every couple of years or so when they wear out.

I do my own hub service, cleaning and and repacking and it is kind of a pain. So I wanted to just not bother doing a similar job every season for the BB!

I have to say that this old chromoly Fuji is a solid bike. One day I will get something better, but this one will remain my backup. Maybe I'll convert it to a touring type ride.
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Old 08-28-14, 05:59 PM
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OK on my BB I installed the new cartridge BB and put on the drivetrain to check basic function and it seems like everything works, though I suppose on the road is a different question. But my inner (28T) chain ring inside edge to chain stay clearance is 3.3mm. That seems a little close? I'm wondering if this is asking for chain suck?

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Old 09-07-14, 06:15 PM
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Well, I pulled out the old cup & cone, and spindle, and replaced it with a UN55 BB Square Taper Bottom Bracket (68x127.5mm).

After cleaning everything up (the old BB was full on 30+ year old grunge) and installing the new UN55 with a spacer, everything lined up well. The chain-line used to be 45mm, and the new chain-line seemed about that as well. Took it for a test ride for about ten minutes and the front derailleur worked fine.

I think this was a success. The 70mm shell did not appear to be a problem either for the drive since or for the non drive side with the UN55 unit. We'll see if there is an issue when I do some real rides this coming week.
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