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Any automotive grease is more that adequate for a BB that turns at 60 to 100 rpm and wheels that turn at 650 rpm at 60 miles per hour.
I use Lubriplate EMB. The bearing house near the refinery where I worked recommended it and it is relatively cheap, and it works. |
Try the Shimano Special Dura Ace grease some time. Good stuff. You'll laugh. You'll cry. You'll kiss sixteen bucks goodbye!
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Originally Posted by rootboy
(Post 17112636)
Try the Shimano Special Dura Ace grease some time. Good stuff. You'll laugh. You'll cry. You'll kiss sixteen bucks goodbye!
I do find it surprising that Shimano imports their grease from Germany. |
It IS very good stuff. And it doesn't separate. But it is pricey. The Germans must know their grease. I guess.
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Originally Posted by rootboy
(Post 17112636)
Try the Shimano Special Dura Ace grease some time. Good stuff. You'll laugh. You'll cry. You'll kiss sixteen bucks goodbye!
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson
(Post 17115438)
Or you could spend $30 on 100gm of Campagnolo grease. Why not? "It eliminates friction, maximizes smoothness, protects from wear and tear, and prolongs the life of your componentry" and it's better than bacon grease!
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Mmm... Bacon !! :thumb:
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While it is slightly less smooth it is more stable and lasting High end synthenic grease is the same 5years+ with typical bicycle use the bearings wear out before the grease.
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I have heard that the mechanics for pro racers don't use grease, they use oil. I don't know if it is true, but it makes sense since the lower viscosity could in theory shave hundredths of a second per stage over that sticky grease.
So, I say, use a low viscosity synthetic oil... but be sure to lubricate your bearings before every ride so they stay lubed properly. :D |
Originally Posted by Little Darwin
(Post 17115532)
I have heard that the mechanics for pro racers don't use grease, they use oil. I don't know if it is true, but it makes sense since the lower viscosity could in theory shave hundredths of a second per stage over that sticky grease.
So, I say, use a low viscosity synthetic oil... but be sure to lubricate your bearings before every ride so they stay lubed properly. :D |
Super LubeŽ Grease great stuff.
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I agonized over this (as I agonize over every bike maintenance procedure I'm not already versed in) when re-packing hubs for the first time. My father in law, mechanic of thirty years, teased me mercilessly for over-thinking it before tossing over the tube of MolySlip grease he'd been using since forever. "Works on just about everything!" And so it did.
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Originally Posted by jralbert
(Post 17115929)
I agonized over this (as I agonize over every bike maintenance procedure I'm not already versed in) when re-packing hubs for the first time. My father in law, mechanic of thirty years, teased me mercilessly for over-thinking it before tossing over the tube of MolySlip grease he'd been using since forever. "Works on just about everything!" And so it did.
Two weekends ago I had the opportunity to upgrade the BB bearings on my 2013 Domane because they self-destructed after 5000 miles. I went with Enduro hybrid ceramic BB's stripped and repacked with Jet-Lube Marine Paste (20% MoS2). Now after 200 miles I'm again amazed. |
For the sake of a counter point, I do not recommend molybdenum disulfide for bicycle hub application. There's a reason that it's primarily specified for heavy duty applications, construction equipment, things that weigh 10x what a car weighs.
It's a great dry-lube for sliding surfaces but I wouldn't use it with a ball and roller bearing, it has a tendency to create flat-spots on the balls. A little bit of friction is a good thing, as you want the ball to roll and not to slide. When it slides, it starts to create groves/wear-marks/channels/ruts/whatever-you-want-to-call-it. The sliding also degrades the roundness of the ball. I'm talking theoretically though and have no idea if real-world application on a bicycle would result in any of this. That said, Ford requires it for their wheel bearings... so... *shrugs* It's commonly used for insurance in heavy duty applications, as a last resort to prevent metal-to-metal wear if the grease all gets channeled out of the way by creating an additional layer of lubrication. Don't get caught up in the marketing buzz around moly or teflon or whatever additive a given grease manufacturer uses, it's mostly just marketing unless it meets a certain criteria (for say Ford, or Caterpillar as specified in their respective repair manuals). On one end, it may not have enough to be of any benefit (for any application) while on the other hand, it could be overkill if the grease is designed for super heavy duty applications. There's no benefit to using molybdenum disulfide outside of gears and sliding surfaces (or similar applications) to justify using it as an additive. There's a reason that it's commonly used in construction and mining equipment but is not used in ball&roller bearings by SKF or Timken or similar companies. Or for the tl;dr among us, we are lubing a bicycle and not a steam-roller. Best case scenario from moly is no benefit; worst case scenario is premature wear. Most likely scenario is that you spend more money and it's not any better/worse than standard grease (for bicycle applications... unless of course you are lubing an internally geared hub). |
Originally Posted by ChuckD6421
(Post 17116332)
Two weekends ago I had the opportunity to upgrade the BB bearings on my 2013 Domane because they self-destructed after 5000 miles. I went with Enduro hybrid ceramic BB's stripped and repacked with Jet-Lube Marine Paste (20% MoS2). Now after 200 miles I'm again amazed.
For use on: [h=4]Applications[/h]Open gears, spur gears, loading racks and arms, sliding bases, marine transmission gears. Let us know how it's going when you hit the next 5000 miles! |
Some great points, headloss!
Just to respond, I didn't mention that I wrote the company before using it to get their thoughts. Even though I tried to thoroughly explain the application and the forces/speeds involved, I have little confidence the person I emailed understood bicycles but he gave it his blessing. No worries. Wrt to your concerns about sliding v. rolling, I'd offer that rolling involves some sliding on a microscopic level. Sliding is sliding, non? I also think the ceramic balls are harder than their races so the races would suffer more from sliding friction. But that's just a theory also. But certainly not something that occurred to me, thanks! I found these press-fit, BB90 cartridges were very easy to open and completely degrease first (yes, very important). The seals are just plastic snap-ins with a metal reinforcing ring. Be careful not to bend too much and they pop out easily with an Exacto. |
Originally Posted by ChuckD6421
(Post 17116683)
Some great points, headloss!
I found these press-fit, BB90 cartridges were very easy to open and completely degrease first (yes, very important). The seals are just plastic snap-ins with a metal reinforcing ring. Be careful not to bend too much and they pop out easily with an Exacto. My only intent is to give a balanced view while trying to be honest about what I know and don't know. In regards to the whole moly discussion, it's something I've been trying to find answers to and haven't had anything definitive yet. I think the amount/size* of moly might be a concern, so it's important to follow the specifications on the manufacturer's label (i.e. don't use the grease if it doesn't list ball&roller bearings). Not sure about the specific jet-lube you used, but a canister of sta-lube with moly that I had laying around did say that it was ok for ball bearing use. * The particle size and film thickness are important parameters that should be matched to the surface roughness of the lubricated component. Particle size selection is much larger for rough cut surfaces, such as hobbed open gears, than for highly finished surfaces, such as those found on bearings. Improperly matched particle sizes may result in excessive wear by abrasion caused by impurities in the MoS2. I saw that the jet-lube was clay based with moly but I'm not sure if the clay thickener or the moly itself are good/bad for a ceramic bearing. My biggest concern regarding your project is that those plastic seals will soften and fail since many greases don't work so well with plastic. My other concern was that clay grease won't play well with a soap if you didn't get all the soap based grease that was factory filled out of the bearing first. Hopefully you have no issues and get much longer life this time around. I'd be annoyed if I only got about a year/5000-miles of use out of a bottom bracket bearing so I totally understand the endeavor. I imagine the upgrade to ceramic alone will go a long way.
Originally Posted by ChuckD6421
(Post 17116683)
Just to respond, I didn't mention that I wrote the company before using it to get their thoughts. Even though I tried to thoroughly explain the application and the forces/speeds involved, I have little confidence the person I emailed understood bicycles but he gave it his blessing. No worries.
Anyways, I think that MoS2 is fine granted that the application is appropriate for the particular mix (see above) so I assume you are good having contacted the company (on a side note, I really like Jet-lube's marine products). To make things even more complicated, there is also a synthetic "red-moly" out there which is used by some companies (I've been considering using Redline's CV-2 on my car, I'll probably test it out on a bike if I pick up a tube). |
Originally Posted by headloss
(Post 17116428)
Or for the tl;dr among us, we are lubing a bicycle and not a steam-roller. Best case scenario from moly is no benefit; worst case scenario is premature wear. Most likely scenario is that you spend more money and it's not any better/worse than standard grease (for bicycle applications... unless of course you are lubing an internally geared hub).
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Originally Posted by jralbert
(Post 17118141)
Oh no - I didn't overthink it enough! ;)
It all comes back to, if the grease says "for ball/roller bearings" it's all good. If not, it's try-at-your-own-risk. Moly is good stuff so long as it's used per instructions. I think that's the only way to not-over-think. I had a weird dream last night, that I took the heads off of my car's engine and just started pouring powdered MoS2 into the cylinders. I blame you guys! LOL |
molybdenum disulfide is the stuff they put in anti-seize, isn't it?
I used to think grease was just grease. Now, I think grease is just grease, but there are so many more choices now. ;) BTW, and this'll probably get me flamed…. there is one place on a bicycle where I am now careful just what sort of grease I use. My Campy Record head sets. I tend to use a slightly lower viscosity grease in those as there's not much rotational action going on there to keep the grease distributed and thicker greases tend not to move around much in the cups and keep the balls and races lubed. Second, they're prone to fretting and third, they aint cheap anymore. |
Originally Posted by headloss
(Post 17118174)
:beer:
It all comes back to, if the grease says "for ball/roller bearings" it's all good. If not, it's try-at-your-own-risk. Moly is good stuff so long as it's used per instructions. I think that's the only way to not-over-think. I had a weird dream last night, that I took the heads off of my car's engine and just started pouring powdered MoS2 into the cylinders. I blame you guys! LOL I actually had another thought that moly might be perfect for chain lubrication. Maybe mixed into some White Lightning? Too bad I have the goopy kind and not the dry. This is the 'thinking outside the box' they teach us to do. What a life if all we ever did was follow the directions. (BTW, I didn't buy this just for the bike, got lots of other uses for it.) |
Originally Posted by rootboy
(Post 17118539)
molybdenum disulfide is the stuff they put in anti-seize, isn't it?
I used to think grease was just grease. Now, I think grease is just grease, but there are so many more choices now. ;) BTW, and this'll probably get me flamed…. there is one place on a bicycle where I am now careful just what sort of grease I use. My Campy Record head sets. I tend to use a slightly lower viscosity grease in those as there's not much rotational action going on there to keep the grease distributed and thicker greases tend not to move around much in the cups and keep the balls and races lubed. Second, they're prone to fretting and third, they aint cheap anymore. The grease itself doesn't lubricate, per say, it releases oils. No reason not to use a lower viscosity if water-washout isn't a concern. Not sure that there's much of a benefit to lower viscosity either, to be honest. If there's so much grease in there that the bearings need to push it around, there's more than you need. It's ability to flow isn't really all that important to the bearing ball rolling over it. I think ngli number matters more when you really pack the grease in (which I do for a hub, but not for a headset). Perhaps if I tried a different grease, I'd change my mind. I'm all about testing! I need to find some Mobil-28, it's clay based ngli #1 .5 grease that we used on pumps in the navy and it's got really good water resistance numbers.
Originally Posted by ChuckD6421
(Post 17118914)
No! The gearbox! :D
I actually had another thought that moly might be perfect for chain lubrication. Maybe mixed into some White Lightning? Too bad I have the goopy kind and not the dry. This is the 'thinking outside the box' they teach us to do. What a life if all we ever did was follow the directions. (BTW, I didn't buy this just for the bike, got lots of other uses for it.) Teflon + moly in one product! (I hope I didn't just open Pandora's box of chain lube debate) I also have this one on my wishlist http://www.amazon.com/Seymour-620-15.../dp/B000AYHK9K |
I like Park grease and can buy it wholesale through my shop so it prices out well against automotive grease, but the retail difference between Park and automotive grease is such that it is not a good option for retail consumers as you can get the same grease for about half the price.
When I was working as a machinist I bought a case of Shell synthetic (tubes) and figure I have enough grease to last me another decade here and the price I got from Shell was even better on a per pound basis. I fill oral syringes with grease to service bearings... it keeps things tidy. Oil lubrication is superior in some respects as it flushes out contaminants but has to be replenished... I have a good number of older Raleighs that have oiled bottom brackets and oil ports in the hubs and some later model hubs also were ported to allow for oil lubrication. |
Originally Posted by rootboy
(Post 17118539)
molybdenum disulfide is the stuff they put in anti-seize, isn't it?
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Originally Posted by Sixty Fiver
(Post 17119022)
I fill oral syringes with grease to service bearings... it keeps things tidy.
Repeated for emphasis... huge difference. |
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