UnfilteredDregs

Not sure, but I've heard that I can install a Campy cassette in place of my Shimano.. I have 11-32 and I'd like to throw on the Campy 12-29 to close things up a bit.... Thanks for any info.

e_guevara

No, they are not interchangeable - given the same rear wheel you may have.

Campy and Shimano freehubs/cassettes have different splines - you can't fit a Shimano cassette on a Campy freehub and vice-versa. Some wheelset manufacturers (e.g. Mavic) though sell a replacement freehub to convert one type to the other.

What you may have read is that people can use an 11s Shimano cassette (on a wheel with a Shimano freehub) on an otherwise 11s Campy drivetrain. The difference in cog spacing on 11s cassettes between the two is small enough to not cause any major shifting concerns.

HillRider

+1 Campy and Shimano freehub bodies have a different spline pattern and will not accept each other's cassettes. As noted, appartently you could use the 12x29 Campy 11-speed cassette on a Campy compatible freehub body and with Shimano 11-speed shifters and derailleurs.

noglider 

You've confused cassette compatibility with shifter compatibility. When the two companies came out with 11-speed stuff, they ended up using the same amount of cable pull for each shift. I don't know if this was accident or an emerging standard.

e_guevara

Not many available options left when you have to cram a lot of cogs onto a limited freehub width.

HillRider

There are a lot of options as to shifter and rear derailleur geometry as long as the outcome is the same. 11-speed cassette spacing may be forced into a nearly universal standard but Shimano and SRAM have had the same cassette spacing for several generations while their shifters and rear derailleurs aren't all compatible.

well biked 

Kind of on the same subject.....Mavic's "Shimano/SRAM 8/9/10" speed freehub bodies just happen to be wide enough to run Shimano/SRAM 11 speed cassettes, while other brands' freehub bodies from the same era aren't wide enough and won't work with Shimano/SRAM 11 speed cassettes.....Was Mavic just very forward-thinking when they designed that older freehub body, or was it just a happy coincidence? Regardless, it's certainly a nice thing to know if you're looking to move to 11 speed and just happen to already have some Shimano/SRAM compatible Mavic wheels.

e_guevara

I was referring to the maximum number of cogs that you can put on a given freehub width and the distance between each cog. As you put more cogs in, the distance between them becomes smaller

Given the limited space on the freehub, it will only be a matter of time before the spacing between the cogs is small enough to make the difference in derailleur cage movement between the two systems be within the acceptable error of each indexed distance (tolerance or hysteresis).

I do agree with you on the geometries. You can play with the shifter and RD geometries with regard to cable pull/parallelogram movement all you want, but the shifter and the RD must agree with each other. The end effect should be that the RD cage moves [sup]L[/sup]/[sub](n-1)[/sub] mm from one cog to the next.

Making the cogs and spacers even thinner could have been done (Shimano and Campy have different thicknesses for both cogs and spacers - which accounts for the different center-to-center spacing between cogs which is main incompatibility between the two systems), and using a narrower chain accordingly, but at the expense of strength and durability of the cogs and chain - as what we are seeing now with 8s vs. 10s/11s cogs/chains.

UnfilteredDregs

Thanks all...Looks like I'll have to go with the Dura Ace cassette then.... GAH!!!$$$$

HillRider

Why? Ultegra, and now 105, cassettes are available in 11-speed and will be spaced exactly the same as the Dura Ace.

e_guevara

According to the Shimano website and online distributors, Ultegra and 105 11s cassettes only come in 11-23, 11-25, 12-25, 11-28, 11-32, while Dura Ace has 11-23, 11-25, 11-28, 12-25, 12-28.

OP did want to get a Campy 12-29 to replace his 11-32. DA is the only one with a combination close to it.

Who knows, maybe Shimano might offer the 12-28 in Ultegra or 105 down the road.

UnfilteredDregs

No 12-28 in Ultegra or 105.

Current....: 11-12-13-14-16-18-20-22-25-28-32
Ultegra... : 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25-28
SRAM.....: 11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-28
Dura Ace : 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-25-28
Campy.... : 12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29

I'm feeling the gaps in the midrange and I know the Campy would tighten things up there without losing much on the 3 climbing cogs...

I may swap out the freehub body...I think that's not an expensive option.

(WTF is up with text formatting on this site?!?!?! lol)

HillRider

Yeah, that's a good point. If the OP wants that specific 12x28 configuration then Dura Ace may be his only choice at the moment. However, Campy's 11-speed cassettes are available only down to the Chorus level (the listing for Athena references the Chorus cassette) so these aren't exactly cheap either.

It's a pet peeve of mine too that 11T smallest cogs are so prevalent. Even with a compact crank it's a much higher top gear than most riders needs or can use and it displaces a much more useful interior cog or a larger large cog.

Al1943

+1
I guess if the 11 makes the pros faster it's going to make us faster too. NOT!

Al1943

Most Mavic freehubs have more room for cogs because Mavic has produced (at least in the past) their own cassettes which are wider overall than Shimano's. This is why the wider Mavic freehubs require an extra 2 mm spacer when used with a Shimano cassette.

UnfilteredDregs

Apparently Miche manufactures Campy and Shimano compatible 11 spd cassettes where you can custom specify the cogs within the 11-29 range...Anyone have experience with their product?

Homebrew01

Yes. The lack of a lower priced 11 speed Campy cassette is 1 of the reasons I am sticking with 10 speed
and +1 on the silliness of 11t cogs in 99% of situations.

Pridedog

I have used both 9 spd and 10 spd configurations of MICHE cassettes for my Campy rides with excellent results. To me there is no noticeable difference in shifting performance or cog/chain wear. Been using them for many years. I like that I can customize the cogs I want. Another option for Shimano is to buy the Tiagra level cassettes. Then use a dremel to remove the heads of the three pins that hold the cassette stack together. You now have the ability to customize the cogs. I am sure the cost of two Tiagra cassettes with difference cog sizes is far less than a Dura Ace cassette. I have done this with a 9 speed set up and it works flawlessly. Just my 2 cents.

HillRider

There are no 11-speed Tiagra cassettes, at least not yet. Maybe next year.

RollCNY

Do they have the same cable pull, or the same cog spacing? I had heard cog spacing. Cable pull would mean a Campy Athena shifter would produce 11 speed cog spacing with a 5800 RD, correct?

noglider 

Oops, you're right. It's cog spacing.

RollCNY

Drat. Interchangeable cable pull would have been nice.