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Tire and Rim Issue

Old 09-28-14, 08:16 PM
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Tire and Rim Issue

I was wondering if anyone else has had experience with Alex ACE-19 and Schwalbe Marathon Supreme tires? I recently replaced the worn out Vittoria Randonneur that came on the bike with a set of the Marathon Supremes. I had a great experience with those model tires in a 26 x 2" size on a deep v mountain rim.

I have had the tube blow out the sidewall twice on the ACE-19 rims. The first time might have been my issue, as it was on my first test spin around the neighborhood after just mounting the tires. The second time was on my ride home from work, after 2-300 miles with not issue.

I had pumped the tires up before leaving work to just under 80 psi. Under the max for the tire.

Trying to decide if I need to just swap out for another brand/model of tire or if there is anything I can try with the current setup.
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Old 09-28-14, 09:02 PM
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Before commenting on possibilities, let's clarify if this was a blowout, or blowoff. I use these two terms to separate cases of a tire failing because the body plies failed or separated from the bead, from cases where a n intact tire blows off a rim.

The cause of the two types of failure are different and unrelated, so a better description of exactly what happened is necessary to strt on the right path toward explaining what happened and why, and how to prevent a replay.
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Old 09-28-14, 09:16 PM
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If the rim walls deformed outwards, well I have had that same issue with ace19 rims. The side walls are weak and wear out fast. Horrible rims, so thin. It's not your fault.
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Old 09-28-14, 09:30 PM
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Originally Posted by erikz
If the rim walls deformed outwards, well I have had that same issue with ace19 rims. The side walls are weak and wear out fast. Horrible rims, so thin. It's not your fault.

Rims aren't taffy. If a rim deformed enough to cause a tire to blow off it wouldn't spring back, and the problem would be obvious.
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Old 09-29-14, 04:36 AM
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The rims are still in fine shape and are not worn out at all. The issue is the tire bead coming over the rim and the tube protruding out and them 'pow'. Issue seems to be how the tire bead and rim seat together.
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Old 09-29-14, 08:42 AM
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Blowoffs are often caused by having a section of the inner tube caught between the tire bead and the rim. This happens if the tube isn't tucked completely inside the tire before it's inflated. It can happen almost immediately when the tire is inflated or some time afterward depending on how much of the tube is trapped. The preventative is to carefully inspect the tire bead area after installing a new tire and/or tube to be sure no tube is showing.
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Old 09-29-14, 09:41 AM
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I think it also possible that you're not doing anything wrong at all. I don't have any issues mounting tires to my current wheelsets which use Sun CR18, Velocity Dyad, and DT TK540 rims. On the other hand, I had two blowoffs with the generic wheels that came on my 2009 Fuji tourer. It didn't help that those rims were a little on the narrow side for the 32mm tires I tend to use but they also seemed a little undersized to me. I gave up on them after about 500 miles of riding.
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Old 09-29-14, 10:00 AM
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Blowoff can sometimes be caused when using tires too wide for the rim. When inflated, the tire wall leaves the rim going out sideways rather than sort of radially. If the wall is somewhat stiff it can lever the bead out from under the hook slightly reducing the hold.

However, as Hillrider said, blowoff is mostly caused by poor seating. before inflating, inspect the tire/rim area, especially at the last section for any hint that the tube may be trapped under the bead. Then inflate to about 20psi and spin the wheel slowly watching the reference line molded into the tire to ensure that it's uniformly close to the rim's edge all the way around.
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Old 09-29-14, 03:41 PM
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I currently have Schwalbe Marathon Supremes on two of my bikes. One uses Mavic OpenPros (28mm); the other has Velocity Dyads (35mm). They are excellent tires. I almost never get flats, and I commute through the city.
I also suspect poor seating in your case.
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Old 09-29-14, 05:50 PM
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Tires are 32mm same as what came off, so the tire size should not be an issue. I tend to be very careful when installing tires and give a check at partial inflation and then at close to full to make sure everything is seated and the exposed sidewall is nice and consistent all around.

That is why this situation has me scratching my head and wondering if it is just something about the particular rim and tire models. I have ordered and am going to try changing back to set of the Vittorias.

Thanks for all of the suggestions.
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Old 10-01-14, 06:37 PM
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So I just experienced a similar problem. I have changed many tires over the last 30 years or more, but I had two blow offs in a row. Here is what I just posted to HED: "I just purchased a wheelset from ProWheelbuider. The company did a great job building up my HED Belgium rims with Dura Ace Hubs. I mounted the tires/tubes and went through my maticulous procedure for making sure it seats (inflate to 30, deflate, inflate to 60 inspect, deflate to low pressure, push tire around to confirm seating, inflate to 80, inspect, and finally, inflate to full pressure of 110--I used to go 120, but I understand that HED rims take a lower max pressure). I am using Conti 4000 S tires and $10 a piece, Specialized, pre-talced tubes. I always start with a bit of air in the tube, to insure it sits inside tire where it will not be pinched. My rear wheel has been fine (though I have not ridden either wheel yet). My front tire blew off the rim at 110, some minutes after I had finished inflating it. Conceding that I might have made an error, I started the process again. I was VERY careful. At 110 the tire blew off again. The tire is brand new. I inspected the tire and rim. The place where the blow off is occurring is opposite the the valve hole. I ran my finger nail under the bead seat of the rim all the way around, both sides. I found a small bump in the vicinity of the blow off. It is the only bump in the bead seat all the way around both side of the rim. Should I try to file it down? Is it defective?" As you can see, I was able to get a picture, though I couldn't send that to HED via their contact form.
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Old 10-01-14, 07:26 PM
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That bump is interesting. Am I correct that this rim is joined via 2 pins in the side channels? if so, something happened to raise that lump. In theory, you could simply file it flush, but the side channels are fairly thin-walled in that area, and you might not be able to file it flush without breaking through the wall.

If there's no pin there you might hammer it flush with a dull chisel or punch.

Also, since you know where the bump is, try pushing that spot downward making sure the hook "latches".

If you're fairly certain that the bump interferes with proper seating, that would be a defect, and HED should either replace, or tell you how to remedy.
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Old 10-01-14, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY
That bump is interesting. Am I correct that this rim is joined via 2 pins in the side channels? if so, something happened to raise that lump. In theory, you could simply file it flush, but the side channels are fairly thin-walled in that area, and you might not be able to file it flush without breaking through the wall.

If there's no pin there you might hammer it flush with a dull chisel or punch.

Also, since you know where the bump is, try pushing that spot downward making sure the hook "latches".

If you're fairly certain that the bump interferes with proper seating, that would be a defect, and HED should either replace, or tell you how to remedy.
Right you are FBinNY! I can now see it is on the other side too! Both sides protrude a bit. I appreciate the warning about filing. Though it might not be the side wall that is interfering, rather the "bump" it makes is an upside down L, and it is probably the part of the L on the bead seat shelf, instead of the sidewall, that would make a difference. I might try your suggestion about special attention to latching the bead at that spot, though it is costing me in tubes! Thanks for help.
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Old 10-01-14, 10:34 PM
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Slower than filing would be to use an Xacto knife and cutting. the bump off a thin sliver at a time. Sometimes there's a ridge or lip at the joint that I take off with a deburring tool. A steady hand with a Dremel can also work.
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Old 10-02-14, 05:05 PM
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Originally Posted by DannoXYZ
Slower than filing would be to use an Xacto knife and cutting. the bump off a thin sliver at a time. Sometimes there's a ridge or lip at the joint that I take off with a deburring tool. A steady hand with a Dremel can also work.
Thanks for the tip. I set to work on it.
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Old 10-02-14, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by WoodsterSS
Thanks for the tip. I set to work on it.
Filing, shaving or Dremel, the effect is the same. Take off only as much as necessary to solve the problem, being careful not to break through to the pin.

**** took another look at the picture. That's not a bulge from a pin being pushed through. It's weld flash, and you're free to file or Dremel it flush to the surrounding area (or close), focusing more on the area below the hook so the bead can pocket in there nicely.
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Last edited by FBinNY; 10-02-14 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 10-03-14, 04:31 AM
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One thing you can do to make it safer is to lay down a couple layers of strong tape on each side of the bump. That way if you slip with the Dremel or blade, it won't gouge out an area you want to keep.
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