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bar end shifter questions

Old 10-01-14, 11:39 AM
  #1  
goldfinch
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bar end shifter questions

I am building up a LHT and probably am going with a nine speed on the rear (but maybe a 10) and a triple on the front, with "mountain" components. I will use bar end shifters on the drop bars. I am looking at bar end shifters and see that they cost big bucks so am poking around at used. I found someone that has a dura-ace set that she used on a bike with a double on the front and 10 speed on the rear. She doesn't know the model number. Are those shifters limited to those gearing options? Do I have to get shifters that specifically say they are for a triple on the front and the exact number of gears I chose on the rear? Does it matter how many speeds if I don't care about indexing?

Any suggestions on bar end shifters that are not a hundred bucks?

Last edited by goldfinch; 10-01-14 at 11:49 AM.
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Old 10-01-14, 11:45 AM
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Left is best friction, FD manually re-centered to not scrape chain double or triple ..
Shimano's D-A 9 is such. the rear is where you need the 9=9, & 10=10 matching.

want NIB 9 speed indexing $100 is what they cost .. maybe Micro shift comes in, cheaper IDK.

buy right only, used, then get a 'whatever', left one that doesn't match aesthetically?

Last edited by fietsbob; 10-01-14 at 11:52 AM.
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Old 10-01-14, 11:51 AM
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Indexed shifters obviously have to match the number of gears you have on the rear and the brand of rear derailleur, just like any other shifter, but friction will work with almost anything. Given that most bar-end shifter sets have friction shifters on the left-hand side, I'd imagine almost any left-hand bar-end will pull enough cable to operate with a triple crankset.

I say "almost" regarding the rear derailleurs because SRAM 1:1 rear derailleurs and Shimano Dyna-Sys ones require a lot more cable pull than most rear derailleurs and as such may not work.

When I was converting an MTB to drop bars two years back, I got a set of Rivendell bar-end shifters on eBay for about £25. They're very nice ratchet friction units.
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Old 10-01-14, 12:01 PM
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you need to match 9 to 9, 10 to 10. I am pretty sure the front will handle 2 or 3.

when looking at cost most of the new Shimano's come with cables, but otherwise this is as cheap as it get for indexed.


I put a set on with 9 speed ultegra and it was an easy install and setup and worked great (I found I didn't like them and swapped out for sti...no I don't sill have the shifters )
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Old 10-01-14, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Airburst View Post

When I was converting an MTB to drop bars two years back, I got a set of Rivendell bar-end shifters on eBay for about £25. They're very nice ratchet friction units.
Nice. I am not finding anything like that.
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Old 10-01-14, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by goldfinch View Post
Nice. I am not finding anything like that.
They're labeled as "Silver Shifters".
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Old 10-01-14, 12:13 PM
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Supplemental question. How about brakes? I have very, very small hands. Any recommendations on brake that are short reach?
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Old 10-01-14, 12:16 PM
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here are the rivendell shifters

Silver Shifters Bar End KIT - 17089
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Old 10-01-14, 12:37 PM
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The Silver Shifters are friction shifters. If all you want to do is have the ability to friction shift the rear, nearly any pair of used bar end shifters will do because most vintage stuff has a friction shift option.

If you buy the Ultegra 9sp Shimano shifters, they could work with any amount of speeds because they can be selected for friction or indexing mode. Friction for anything but 9sp, 9sp index shifting is 9sp only.

Dura Ace 10/11 sp shifters are indexed only, no option for switching to friction shifting.

I had no fun trying to friction shift a 10sp rear cass. The nature of the narrow spacing makes precise shifts a bit more of a requisite, I very much more enjoy friction shifting across cassettes with fewer gears, the fewer the better.
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Old 10-01-14, 12:44 PM
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Any recommendations on brake that are short reach?
dia compe / CaneCreek had a separate short reach brake lever
where the lever itself was curved differently so as to come back Closer to the bar from the drops..

a bar seen in pictures (Italian, I think) dented in part of the tube to let small hands get closer ..
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Old 10-01-14, 12:55 PM
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Chain Reaction Cycles in the UK has DuraAce 9-speed barend shifters for $78, shipping to the US is about $10.

Shimano Dura-Ace 7700 9 Speed Bar End Shifters | Chain Reaction Cycles
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Old 10-01-14, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by goldfinch View Post
How about brakes? I have very, very small hands. Any recommendations on brake that are short reach?
Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
dia compe / CaneCreek had a separate short reach brake lever
where the lever itself was curved differently so as to come back Closer to the bar from the drops.
Tektro also makes one:



And if you're using flat bars, there are several MTB type levers with adjustable reach.
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Old 10-01-14, 01:17 PM
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Sweet on the levers. I am using drop bars. I haven't figured out what bars to use yet.
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Old 10-01-14, 03:26 PM
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Watch ebay. I picked up a set of used DA 7800 10 speed bar end shifters for $37 shipped a couple months ago.

I've used both 9 and 10 speed bar ends. The front shifter will shift doubles and triples, mountain or road front derailleurs.

With anything more than 8 speeds out back I enjoy indexed shifting.
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Old 10-01-14, 07:31 PM
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microshift microSHIFT -The best control system have some interesting items to offer.

Edit: Mountain sifters: https://www.microshift.com.tw/mtb_Shifters.html

Last edited by dsbrantjr; 10-01-14 at 07:42 PM.
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Old 10-01-14, 07:51 PM
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Indexed/Friction. A common question that can only be answered by opinion.

I got a 10sp cassette but only had a 8sp Ultegra set. I ran friction until my 10sp indexed pair came in. I wouldn't go back to friction having run both on the same bike. Just another opinion.

I sold the 8sp stuff on eBarf and ended up only about $25 into the new 10sp parts after it was all over.
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Old 10-01-14, 08:21 PM
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I'll add that if you are using mountain components you may run into some challenges with bar ends. The front shifter may not have enough pull for a triple with a mountain derailleur, I've heard Tiagara front derailleurs can work with mountain gearing, never tried it myself. I do know that a double is all my front DT shifter will do with a Deore LX low clamp front derailleur. The rear derailleur if a 9 speed mountain unit should work with either 9 or 10 speed bar ends, 10 speed mountain derailleurs might not work.
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Old 10-02-14, 01:02 AM
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goldfinch, I'm using Shimano bar end shifters with two triples and they work just fine. One is shifting a Sugino triple, the other an Ultegra triple. You don't want to use a 10S Dyna-Sys RD so to match the pull ratio of the rear shifter.

Brad

PS Post coffee clarification; the Sugino has an Alvio FD and the Ultegra has an Ultegra FD.

Last edited by bradtx; 10-02-14 at 06:12 AM. Reason: PS
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Old 10-02-14, 08:02 AM
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Originally Posted by likebike23 View Post
I'll add that if you are using mountain components you may run into some challenges with bar ends. The front shifter may not have enough pull for a triple with a mountain derailleur, I've heard Tiagara front derailleurs can work with mountain gearing, never tried it myself. I do know that a double is all my front DT shifter will do with a Deore LX low clamp front derailleur. The rear derailleur if a 9 speed mountain unit should work with either 9 or 10 speed bar ends, 10 speed mountain derailleurs might not work.
this has not been my experience
at all

the difference in cable pull between road and mtb fds
is not like the difference between shimano and sram 1:1 rds

you may have to use a lot of the levers throw
but it almost definitely can be made to work

as for your 105 shifters
hmm that's odd

I had dt shifters before
that rested about thirty degrees into its travel
to make it easier to shift both levers with one hand
so maybe it is something like that cutting into the cable pull
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Old 10-02-14, 08:14 AM
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Sugino xd 600 crank would be a fine triple crank for a LHT; it's an old school mtb crank with a 110/74 bcd. It will look right on your surly, will give you good gearing (46-36-26 chain rings come stock), and will shift well with whatever bar ends you throw at it.
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Old 10-02-14, 08:16 AM
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Sugino xd 600 crank would be a fine triple crank for a LHT; it's an old school mtb crank with a 110/74 bcd. It will look right on your surly, will give you good gearing (46-36-26 chain rings come stock), and will shift well with whatever bar ends you throw at it.

Bar ends typically are friction on the left so you don't need to "specify" double or triple. Shimano bar ends are sweet but you can pick up a set of vintage suntour bar ends for considerably less. If you go with friction, I'd suggest going with 8 in the back though as that will make for a nicer shifter with your friction shifters.
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Old 10-02-14, 08:44 AM
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I know that 7 and 8 speed index shifters can work on 7 and 8 speed cassette due to the fact that the pull for either is the same
and I believe the same is true for 9 and 10 speed index shifters and 9/10 speed cassette.

I have also seen advertising dealing with 7/8 for one type of shifters and 9/10 for the other type of shifters...
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Old 10-02-14, 09:19 AM
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I've heard that the 10-speed dura-ace bar end shifters don't have a friction mode. So if you buy the used ones mentioned, then you will need to go 10-speed with the drivetrain.
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Old 10-02-14, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by e0richt View Post
I know that 7 and 8 speed index shifters can work on 7 and 8 speed cassette due to the fact that the pull for either is the same
and I believe the same is true for 9 and 10 speed index shifters and 9/10 speed cassette.

I have also seen advertising dealing with 7/8 for one type of shifters and 9/10 for the other type of shifters...
close
sort of

7 and 8 speed shifters pull a similar amount of cable per shift
not identical
and it can sometimes be made to work acceptably
but not always

9 and 10 aped shifters
however
are not the same
at all
and a 10 speed shifter used with a 9 speed cassette
will not work well at all
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Old 10-02-14, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by e0richt View Post
I know that 7 and 8 speed index shifters can work on 7 and 8 speed cassette due to the fact that the pull for either is the same
and I believe the same is true for 9 and 10 speed index shifters and 9/10 speed cassette.

I have also seen advertising dealing with 7/8 for one type of shifters and 9/10 for the other type of shifters...
Pull ratio is different from inter indexing. The RD's pull ratio is built in at the factory and never changes. Many of Shimano's RDs use the same pull ratio, but not all. A popular example is the difference in pull ratio between the 8S D-A and the pull ratio for Shimano's other 8S road groups. The 8S D-A has a greater pull ratio requiring smaller indexing steps at the shifter and can actually be shifted perfectly well using a 9S indexed shifter.

There is an inter indexing that works perfectly well, the seven and eight speed (except D-A RD) are interchangeable simply because the separation difference between cogs is only .2 mm (I think that's correct.). Nine and ten speed cassettes use the same width free hub as 8S with less spacing between the cogs..

Brad
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