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Is replacing cones that unusual?

Old 10-22-14, 04:37 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by cny-bikeman View Post
That one's easy - because a non-chicken can lay an egg whose chromosomes have mutated sufficiently to create a chicken, the (chicken) egg came first. Your turn.


Do you have any proof that this actually happened? Check out Genesis and find out that the chicken was created and then laid an egg.

Back to cones, if you can find an old full service bike shop, many times they have old stock sitting around. I was able to restore a few bikes that way.
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Old 10-22-14, 04:41 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnDThompson View Post
I have to disagree with your assessment of their seals as well. They were closely matched to the axle, and the dustcaps had an extended flange creating a long, narrow channel to inhibit debris penetration. And you could add oil through the oil port to flush debris out of the channel on a regular basis. The pedals and bottom brackets had rifling that was designed to move debris out with normal pedaling action. All in all, they were quite well designed and have held up better than cheap cartridge bearings in my experience.
Agree with everything here. It has started to rain here, and I intend to commute right through the winter. So I have brought out my winter wheelset with the Campagnolo Record freewheel hubs. Best bad-weather hubs ever. Unlike lower-end hubs built with cartridge bearings, which trap water and turn into a rusty mess, the Record hubs have convenient injection ports.

Put the grease *** in the port and in seconds all the old grease and water is ejected and refreshed with the new!
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Old 10-22-14, 05:44 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
You paid the price for that simplicity, however. And the price was more cone replacement. The labyrinth seals of modern cup and cone hubs makes replacing the cones far less common because they don't get contaminated. I'd much rather have the labyrinth seals.
I did not say they were better, merely that finding replacements was easier. Except for Campy most cones were not only not well sealed but downright rough until they were broken in, which typically took a few hundred miles.
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Old 10-22-14, 09:33 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Agree with everything here. It has started to rain here, and I intend to commute right through the winter. So I have brought out my winter wheelset with the Campagnolo Record freewheel hubs. Best bad-weather hubs ever. Unlike lower-end hubs built with cartridge bearings, which trap water and turn into a rusty mess, the Record hubs have convenient injection ports.
I don't know how this thread moved into bashing cartridge bearings but, honestly, I'd like to know what "low-end" hubs with cartridge bearings you guys are talking about. I've been riding bikes for 30+ years and building my own wheels for 25 years and I can't every recall finding a "low-end cartridge" hub much less one that traps water and turns into a rusty mess. I've owned numeous cartridge bearing hubs and the cheapest ones I ever owned was a set of Suntour that came OEM on my Miyata Ridge Runner. Considering that I paid almost $400 for the Ridge Runner in 1985 and it was equipped with top of the line Suntour equipment, I wouldn't call them "low-end". I've had lots of trouble free cartridge bearing hubs since but none of them have been "low-end".

And considering that I never had to replace the bearings (nor even work on them) until I got rid of the broken frame 10 years of hard mountain bike riding later, I'd say I got pretty good hubs out of the deal. No cone equipped mountain bike wheel I've owned since...even with Shimano's far better sealing system...has lasted that long.
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Old 10-23-14, 07:14 AM
  #30  
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Replacing cones is no big deal. If worn or damaged out they go.
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Old 10-23-14, 08:48 AM
  #31  
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After a lot of searching I have concluded that the only way to get replacement cones for the m525 front hub is to buy new a front hub and take the cones, which seems stupid to me, so I am going to use this as an excuse to get a new wheelset for my winter bike. These cheapies lasted 4 winters so I figure I got my money's worth out of them.

I'm leaning toward a wheelset I found on amazon with XT m770 hubs for around $200. Replacement cones are available, and I will plan on servicing the hubs a little more frequently to avoid pitting in the first place. I also looked at options from velocity, velo-orange, paul, white industries and phil wood, but figured that for a winter bike in Chicago those higher end hubs wouldn't be worth it because the salt is going to kill anything eventually. I may also post this on the winter forum, but I'm interested in hearing others' opinions. for reference I will ride these somewhere between 1,000-1,500 miles each winter on studded tires.
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Old 10-23-14, 09:07 AM
  #32  
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I have a rear wheel with an Acera X hub that I bought in 1996. Replaced 3 rims, 2 cone sets & bearings, never did anything to the freehub. Still running OK after some 100,000 km.
And yes, there are very low end made in China hubs w/sealed bearings (the bearings are the cheapest kind too).
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Old 10-23-14, 10:21 AM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
After a lot of searching I have concluded that the only way to get replacement cones for the m525 front hub is to buy new a front hub and take the cones, which seems stupid to me, so I am going to use this as an excuse to get a new wheelset for my winter bike. These cheapies lasted 4 winters so I figure I got my money's worth out of them.

I'm leaning toward a wheelset I found on amazon with XT m770 hubs for around $200. Replacement cones are available, and I will plan on servicing the hubs a little more frequently to avoid pitting in the first place. I also looked at options from velocity, velo-orange, paul, white industries and phil wood, but figured that for a winter bike in Chicago those higher end hubs wouldn't be worth it because the salt is going to kill anything eventually. I may also post this on the winter forum, but I'm interested in hearing others' opinions. for reference I will ride these somewhere between 1,000-1,500 miles each winter on studded tires.
Sigh... The shop(s) failed you here. But given the relative motivation level for selling some inexpensive picky parts vs. a new wheelset, we should have predicted the outcome. Plus circa 2014, I can't be sure that most shop staff have ever serviced hubs.

OK. You're going for a wheelset. The XT choice is the best. Not just in the best balance between performance and price, but the best choice - period.

For a number of tedious technical reasons, the XT hubs are simply better than all of the others you list. They are better designed, sealed and constructed. Shimano hubs are an outstanding bargain, and if maintained on even a minimal schedule, will provide top-end performance - for a lifetime.

And contrary to your experience to date, the world is awash with Shimano replacement parts. Really.
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Old 10-29-14, 10:26 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
...The XT choice is the best. Not just in the best balance between performance and price, but the best choice - period...
Thanks for the advice, Dave. I ordered a Mavic XM 719 / Shimano Deore XT 780 wheelset. Hopefully I will get them before winter.
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Old 10-30-14, 06:15 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Most hubs had "dust seals" which had large enough gaps to let boulders into the hubs which ground up the cones.
The grease was supposed to catch the "boulders." You just had to repack the hub before particles worked their way into the path of the bearing balls.
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Old 10-31-14, 05:59 AM
  #36  
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It's probably unusual now because bike mech. first suggest you to change the wheel when replacing a cone that cost about 10$ in part.

That's the first thing I was told... They make a bigger sale that way too.
It's certainly true that if some one changes the cones for you, it is not worth spending 30-40$ including labor time for an old wheel. But when you do it yourself it takes 10-20 minutes max.

I just learned that I should grease my wheels multiple times per years (every 200 miles)... My commuting cones are completely shot. One bearing exploded in the wheel! I couldn't believe how stupid I was to treat my bike like this. I always put oil on the chain and important & accessible components if I knew that earlier I would have probably saved my cone. I am pretty sure a minority of biker know that they should do that...

When greasing your bike costs 150$CA to do in a LBS I believe some prefer not caring and just ride it till it die.

Last edited by mooder; 10-31-14 at 06:03 AM.
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Old 10-31-14, 06:34 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
I'll tell you after you tell me which came first -- chicken or egg.

Can't do that [without upsetting the sensors anyway], but I can tell you how to unscramble an egg...
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Old 10-31-14, 06:39 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by garage sale GT View Post
The grease was supposed to catch the "boulders." You just had to repack the hub before particles worked their way into the path of the bearing balls.
I know what the grease was supposed to do. It didn't...nor could it...work in practice. Would you want to go back to that system?
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Old 10-31-14, 06:46 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by mooder View Post
...I just learned that I should grease my wheels multiple times per years (every 200 miles)...
Is that right? Every 200 miles!?! It's not uncommon for me to ride more than that in a week. I was thinking something like every 800-1,000 miles depending on how much of that was in the rain. Experts?
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Old 10-31-14, 06:53 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by LastKraftWagen View Post
Can't do that [without upsetting the sensors anyway], but I can tell you how to unscramble an egg...
I'm not sure what "sensors" you are using or maybe you are referring to the "sensors" that the censors are using to detect inappropriate content but which came first is an easy one. The egg predates the chicken by about 1.2 billion years when sexual reproduction developed. The hard shell egg predates chickens by a few hundred million years.
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Old 10-31-14, 07:34 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
I'm not sure what "sensors" you are using or maybe you are referring to the "sensors" that the censors are using to detect inappropriate content but which came first is an easy one. The egg predates the chicken by about 1.2 billion years when sexual reproduction developed. The hard shell egg predates chickens by a few hundred million years.

Yes... the censor's sensors... And while "sensor" appears grammatically awkward it is in fact factually correct as the censoring software the censors censor with uses sensors to censor censored content. Bon mot not a forte? But thanks, you've made the punch line a "muted" point.
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Old 10-31-14, 08:27 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
Is that right? Every 200 miles!?! It's not uncommon for me to ride more than that in a week. I was thinking something like every 800-1,000 miles depending on how much of that was in the rain. Experts?
No, that is not right. You might have to repack the bearings every 200 miles if you rode without dust covers in hub deep sand in hurricane force winds in the Kalahari Desert but if you are going to do that kind of riding, you might want to consider a different hub sealing mechanism.

With a modern cup and cone sealed hub like the Shimano hubs, you might want to repack them every 6000 to 10,000 miles. Even that might be excessive.

If you have a cartridge bearing hub, you might need to replace the bearings after 50,000 to 100,000 miles. I'm not sure because I haven't found the end of life for my cartridge bearings yet. Most of the old cartridge bearing hubs I've owned have been replaced when I upgraded to freehubs and all of the freehub versions I have are too new...one has about 12,000 miles on it and is not showing any kind of problem.

I suspect that mooder's problem was not related to the amount of grease that was in the hub but rather to adjustment. Bearings don't "explode" in the hub spontaneously. I've seen lots of cup and cone hubs that come from the factory misadjusted. They are way too tight which will damage the bearing eventually. I've also seen caged bearings that have been ground to dust but, again, that is due to misadjustment.

On a side note, it's not hard to learn how to repack and readjust bearings.
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Old 10-31-14, 08:34 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by LastKraftWagen View Post
Yes... the censor's sensors... And while "sensor" appears grammatically awkward it is in fact factually correct as the censoring software the censors censor with uses sensors to censor censored content. Bon mot not a forte? But thanks, you've made the punch line a "muted" point.
While the censors use censoring software to sense content to censor censorable content, the software isn't a "sensor" in the classical sense.
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Old 10-31-14, 09:01 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
I've seen lots of cup and cone hubs that come from the factory misadjusted. They are way too tight which will damage the bearing eventually.
I noticed this too. I just automatically adjust and repack new hubs.
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Old 10-31-14, 09:13 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
No, that is not right. You might have to repack the bearings every 200 miles if you rode without dust covers in hub deep sand in hurricane force winds in the Kalahari Desert but if you are going to do that kind of riding, you might want to consider a different hub sealing mechanism.

With a modern cup and cone sealed hub like the Shimano hubs, you might want to repack them every 6000 to 10,000 miles. Even that might be excessive.

If you have a cartridge bearing hub, you might need to replace the bearings after 50,000 to 100,000 miles. I'm not sure because I haven't found the end of life for my cartridge bearings yet. Most of the old cartridge bearing hubs I've owned have been replaced when I upgraded to freehubs and all of the freehub versions I have are too new...one has about 12,000 miles on it and is not showing any kind of problem.

I suspect that mooder's problem was not related to the amount of grease that was in the hub but rather to adjustment. Bearings don't "explode" in the hub spontaneously. I've seen lots of cup and cone hubs that come from the factory misadjusted. They are way too tight which will damage the bearing eventually. I've also seen caged bearings that have been ground to dust but, again, that is due to misadjustment.

On a side note, it's not hard to learn how to repack and readjust bearings.
I can assure you that I haven't done 6000 to 10000 miles (that's 10 000+km, it's A LOT) with all my wheels and the cones WERE completely shot (not just the one with the ball exploded). 200 miles was for MTB (my mistake), I've checked and it seems the recommendation is ranging between 300 and 1000 miles. It will depend if you ride your bike in the rain/snow how dusty the road is etc.
I am speaking of the shimano R500 & xero 220, low-end wheel so it's certainly possible a higher-end wheel will require less maintenance but I really doubt it can do 6 000 to 10 000 miles with no maintenance.
Edit: It could also be manufacturing default, the ball was sliced in two!

Last edited by mooder; 10-31-14 at 09:17 AM.
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Old 10-31-14, 09:15 AM
  #46  
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Here's my take on loose-ball hubs:

Anything half-decent is a fine thing and should last virtually forever, as long as it's properly adjusted and the lube is renewed one every gazillion km or ten years.

The problem is that they're almost always set too tight from the factory, and often are never adjusted right before the cones go.

From my limited perspective this seems to be improving a little lately, along with wheels being built with enough tension these days... sure is nice.
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Old 10-31-14, 09:27 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
Shimano hubs are an outstanding bargain, and if maintained on even a minimal schedule, will provide top-end performance - for a lifetime.

And contrary to your experience to date, the world is awash with Shimano replacement parts. Really.
Yep. Shimano should usually be the first thing you think when it comes to hubs... it's like buying a Toyota.
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Old 10-31-14, 01:16 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by mooder View Post
I can assure you that I haven't done 6000 to 10000 miles (that's 10 000+km, it's A LOT) with all my wheels and the cones WERE completely shot (not just the one with the ball exploded). 200 miles was for MTB (my mistake), I've checked and it seems the recommendation is ranging between 300 and 1000 miles. It will depend if you ride your bike in the rain/snow how dusty the road is etc.
I am speaking of the shimano R500 & xero 220, low-end wheel so it's certainly possible a higher-end wheel will require less maintenance but I really doubt it can do 6 000 to 10 000 miles with no maintenance.
Edit: It could also be manufacturing default, the ball was sliced in two!
Unless flawed, it takes a lot to destroy a ball bearing. Your bearing broken in half says to me that it was flawed.

As for a 300 to 1000 mile maintenance interval, that's excessive. Most everything I've seen suggests once a year, although I've gone far longer without issues. Make sure they are adjusted properly out of the box, however.
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Old 10-31-14, 03:15 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
As for a 300 to 1000 mile maintenance interval, that's excessive. Most everything I've seen suggests once a year, although I've gone far longer without issues. Make sure they are adjusted properly out of the box, however.
So for the wheels I just got for this winter (XT hubs); adjust the hubs before I put the wheels on the bike and service them in the Spring?
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Old 10-31-14, 04:29 PM
  #50  
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Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
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Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones

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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
So for the wheels I just got for this winter (XT hubs); adjust the hubs before I put the wheels on the bike and service them in the Spring?
Yes..unless the bearings start feeling gritty or rough.
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