natch

After 18 years, my 97 Gary Fisher Aquila MTB (triple butted chromoly frame, no shocks) rear wheel has had a 2nd spoke break within a few weeks of having the bike shop replace the 1st broken spoke. I had noticed the rear wheel feeling out of true shortly after the repair via brake feel. I felt and plucked my spokes and noticed a few were very low in frequency and one was just plain loose. I put my hand to truing the wheel myself (after watching a YouTube Video) with careful minimal tightening as well as tried to tighten up the just plain loose as well as low frequency spokes. And it seemed to work for about a week, but now another spoke broke. I am a big guy at 6'2" 245 lb. and I ride regularly (3 to 5 times a week or more of 10+ miles) and hard in the city of Philadelphia (pothole diver and curb jumper) as well as on the local trails in Fairmount Park. The rear wheel is original with the hub being a Shimano STX-RC FH-MC38 – 8 speed and it has a Maverick Rim with the original spokes until just recently getting one replaced after all this time. So now what? Do I get a whole new wheel, or build one up from scratch. And just to throw in a complication, is it maybe time to replace my BB? Is that the most likely culprit for recent creaking during hard riding? I started doing most of my own repairs with my Craig's List road bike, but this is my 1st attempt to mess with wheels and spokes. Up until now, all I've changed in this bike is cassettes, chains and my middle ring (last year because it was really worn down with some teeth having almost no metal left). Oh and I have replaced my tires, migrating 1st to reverse knobby's when I 1st moved to the city, to finally 1.85" slicks. My goal is to get back riding my MTN bike soon as it is my mainstay. My road bike is really for the occasional ride with my road biking friends.

GravelMN

Sounds like you have a lot of miles on your stock components. I'm a huge fan of older chrome-moly MTBs as commuters and don't even flinch when refitting or upgrading one. Those butted cro-mo framesets will last forever and ride like a dream.

First order of business is a good assessment of your wheel components, if the bearing surfaces of the hubs are worn out, or the rim is damaged or worn thin on the braking surfaces, it might be time to pop for a new wheelset. If everything appears in good condition, service the hub and reassemble it. Having recently broken multiple spokes, it is highly probable that low and uneven spoke tension is the culprit. I find it easier to work on a wheel with the tire and rim strip off. Detension all the spokes by backing them off until you can see a thread or two showing. Try to get as close as possible to the exact amount of thread showing outside of each nipple. This is a good time to replace any damaged spokes or rounded nipples. Start at the valve hole and tighten each nipple one turn. Keep going around the wheel adding tension one turn at a time. As the tension comes up, start spot checking dish and true. Don't get obsessive, just watch for things going awry. This is also the time to go around the drive side of the rear wheel an extra time or two to get it into rough dish. Once you get the wheels up to near appropriate tension and roughly true, stress relieve the wheel and recheck the evenness of the tension. Finish truing and tensioning with 1/4 turns or less as you go around the wheel and get pickier about radial and lateral true. I like to use a tensiometer but they are pricey and many good wheels have been built without them. Be sure to stress relieve your wheels. I do it once, then perform the final tweeks to true and tension, then relieve again.

If your hub and rims are good and the wheel is properly hand trued and tensioned, more broken spokes or the wheel coming out of true probably means it's time to throw in the towel and get new wheels, but I've rehabbed some pretty rough wheels on older bikes (bike co-op) and had them go many more miles.

There are a lot of sources of creaks on older bikes. Start by cleaning the bike well and lubricating the drive train appropriately. A quiet drive train makes it easier to hear and diagnose assorted noises. Common places that start to creak from front to back include:

- handlebar to stem contact surface (loosen, add a thin swipe of grease, and retighten)
- headset (service and check for wear and proper adjustment)
- drive train (check wear on chain, rings and cassette, replace if necessary)
- crankset (remove the cranks, lightly grease the interface surfaces, and reinstall the cranks). Square taper cranks are notorious for creaking. If they have been ridden loose, the hole gets out of square and will creak no matter how much to tighten it. Also look for any cracks at either end of the cranks.
- bottom bracket (service and adjust cup and cone BB, or check and replace the cartridge, grease or use anti-seize on the threads and reinstall to proper torque)
- pedals (check for excessive play or grinding, remove from cranks, service the pedals as appropriate for the type of pedal, and reinstall using anti-seize on the threads)
- seat post (remove the seatpost, apply a thin layer of grease to the post and reinstall making sure it is tight)
- saddle rails (loosen the clamp, apply a small amount of grease to the rails, retighten clamp)
- frame (inspect every inch of the frame, especially welds and the head and seat tubes for cracks or deformity)
- accessories (make sure all attachment hardware is properly tightened and that clearances are adequate)

chewa

=1
Spot on advice given by GravelMN

If you are a big guy and use the bike hard, it is probably worth getting at least the rear wheel handbuilt by someone who knows what they are doing. In extreme cases a 40 speke wheel may help, but is unlikely to be needed given your history.

natch

I also love a Chrome -moly MTB's Particularly this one. The triple butted frame makes it a tank and the compliance of a the steel makes it relatively comfortable and easy to handle. It is also very well balanced.
Your suggestions about troubleshooting the creaks I am hearing make a lot of sense. I'l start with the seat as it is the easiest. The BB is supposed to be sealed.
But as far as the wheel goes, I am thinking that i always wanted a second set. One for the city with Slicks and one for the trails with knobby's. Getting new wheels would allow me to get back on the bike quickly and have plenty of time to evaluate and probably rebuild the original wheels with new spokes and possibly a new rim.Does anybody have suggestions for a good strong but reasonably light wheel that would be a good match for this oldie but goodie frame?

Bill Kapaun

Most likely your broken spokes is becoming a trend and number 3, 4...are not far behind.
I'd just respoke if the rim is in good shape.
The nice part about that is you can look at the spokes to see if they are the proper length before disassembling.
You can then remove a spoke from each side and measure, adjust if necessary from previous observation.
Order your spokes and relace, one at a time.
It's a bit tedious that way. IF you have wheel building skills, it's much easier yet.
IF you don't have the skills, you might talk to your local LBS and see what they charge to finish the wheel.
You save them all the "grunt" work.

BTW- Is Fairmount Park the one near 47th & Chester? (or so)

GravelMN

While a sealed BB cannot be serviced or adjusted, they can still be a source of creaks if they were not installed to the proper torque, no anti-seize or grease was used, or if they are badly worn. If it does sound like your BB is creaking, remove it and turn the spindle by hand feeling for excessive grit or play. If it feels gritty or sloppy, replace it. If not, reinstall. Either way use a good anti-seize (Permatex is available in copper or aluminum formulations from any auto parts store and probably in the automotive section of many big box stores). If you don't have anti-seize, a good swipe of the same grease on the threads will do. Make sure not to cross thread and to turn in the correct direction and reinstall. A torque wrench is handy, but if you don't have one, just make sure it is good and tight.

natch

After looking at over-sized rims on wheels on Craig's list, I've decided to just go ahead and start replacing spokes on my own. There are plenty of YouTube videos and it doesn't appear to be that hard. Just a bit tedious. Plus I get the benefit with just a couple of extra tools and a spare spoke or two, I am can be prepared for field replacement. So, where is a good place to buy spokes on line after the 1st 3 I've gotten from the local bike shop run out? Any other advise?

natch

Bought a new spoke. Actually 4. Took off cassette & discovered a few of the remaining spokes look a bit chewed up. Suspect my chain went out of range and hit the spokes, going behind the cassette for a revolution or two under power and that is why over half of the spokes looked chewed up. So now what? Do I replace all of my chewed up spokes or just wait and see f they break or not. And maybe it is time to get a spoke guard to prevent this kind of thing from happening again. Oh and one final note. My LBC insisted I get nipples with the spokes and it is a good thing, as the old nipples took a 13 notch on my spoke ring tool and the new ones are the 14 notch. The spoke appeared too narrow to thread into the old nipple. Also, my old spokes are bright silver or what looks like a polished stainless steel. The new spokes are kind of a dull grey. Problem?

catonec 

18 years worth of constant use sounds like you got your money's worth. I would replace it given the other issues you see with chewed up spokes, different gauges, and materials. Just my opinion.

$79 is pretty cheap for a brand new set. There are better wheels out there but cost more obviously. These are definitely better than a wheel that is broken and unusable.
Vuelta Zerolite 26" Mountain Wheelset - Limited Edition

nfmisso

I am a big fan of Cro-Mo MTB of the late '80's and early '90's too.

I am a much heavier guy than you, and build my own wheels. For 135mm OLD; which is most MTB of the era, my component choice is:

* Wheelmaster 40H tandem hub. They are cartridge bearing hubs, and go together in a similar way to Phil Wood hubs.
black: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B004MEWSNW/...I2DHSP3WQHDJNG
silver: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B006EPPLXG/...I3QB0OKTNMG7QH
* Velocity Aeroheat rims. Velocity rims are round and flat, so they are easy to build.
Amazon.com : Velocity Aeroheat 26" 36 h Blk Ano/Sil Sided rim : Bike Rims : Sports & Outdoors
* Velocity rim plugs - 8mm - no more rim tape
Amazon.com : Velocity Rim Plug for 8mm Holes (Bag of 72) : Bike Rims : Sports & Outdoors
* Wheelsmith 2.0 spokes - though 2.0/1.7 would be better and provide a smoother ride, especially with the short spokes. The latter are 50% to 75% more expensive.
* Wheelsmith 2.0 x 12 nickel plated brass nipples.
* Sunlight TR Presta valve tubes - as a bike commuter, I do not like flats.

Bill Kapaun

So-Nigel
Mechanical Design Engineer-

How do you lace the 36 hole rim to the 40 hole hub?