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Winter IGH Conversion Project

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Winter IGH Conversion Project

Old 11-02-14, 12:04 PM
  #26  
GamblerGORD53
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+1 Frame not good .... Most new derailler bikes since about 1995 have had a notch dropout like front forks. An IGH will not work without a pulley.

I have used the SA RD5w 2 years with 46/18T and 48/18T, 43/46 GI to 111/116. Having a/the middle gear around 71 GI is best. After oiling it, as far as gearing, efficiency and reliability is concerned it put my 3x8 to shame 95% of the time, especially at high speed. The drawback is the dead spots between gears. Even at 46 GIs I go up 10% hills without much ado. The problem with these now discontinued hubs is the in hub shifting parts get to sticking and slow to engage. Wait for the new rotary shift models to come out, they have closer and even 25% gears anyway. I put the shifters on the TT to get the cables away from steering, SA had a thumbie. The SA clicking is mostly heard by the guy behind you. It does feel a bit like a beehive in 2nd and angry bees in 1st. ha, same with the Rohloff's 5 to 7. It is advisable to not stomp on the pedal until your are sure it is engaged. +1... A 3 sp is way less trouble.

I also now have a Rohloff, 22 to 120 GI. They are very stiff and noisy when new for 2000 miles. It gets quieter and faster every day now. Absolute dream machine with seamless gears. I Will NEVER buy any clunky deR POS again. Steel chainrings are the way to go.

Last edited by GamblerGORD53; 11-02-14 at 12:12 PM.
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Old 11-02-14, 12:25 PM
  #27  
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But STI Derailleurs work best when the wheel is always back in the same place and wont pull out of line if the QR is insufficiently Tight.

& there are a lot of vertical Dropout Frames Out There.

Last edited by fietsbob; 11-05-14 at 08:27 AM.
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Old 11-02-14, 03:23 PM
  #28  
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With vertical dropouts, how would the anti rotation washers engage? I would look for a frame with horizontal dropouts.
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Old 11-02-14, 07:49 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Gresp15C View Post
With vertical dropouts, how would the anti rotation washers engage? I would look for a frame with horizontal dropouts.
Sturmey Archer anti rotation washers part number SU-HMW534 are made for vertical dropouts.


Last edited by Dan Burkhart; 11-02-14 at 08:06 PM.
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Old 11-02-14, 08:18 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
Sturmey Archer anti rotation washers part number SU-HMW534 are made for vertical dropouts.
So that's what those things are for.

Oddly enough, both of my hubs had the anti-rotation washers for the narrower Raleigh dropout slots, and I had no idea that there were washers for modern dropouts, so I had shims in the dropouts of both of my bikes until I happened on a part number for the proper washers by accident.
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Old 11-03-14, 11:41 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Bravin Neff View Post
Matariki, what do you think about the "noisiness" and "inefficiency" of the S-A five speed? Any of that stuff bother you?
Never noticed that it was significantly noisier than my other bikes. It is much quieter than my new (to me) ICE trike. I suppose that it is less efficient than a cogged bike but I doubt that you would notice that. In my case, my average speeds between heavy IGH commuter and the 10+ lbs. lighter SS bike are less than 1 mph in the city.
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Old 11-03-14, 08:52 PM
  #32  
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I don't find the ratcheting sounds of the 3 or 5 speed Sturmey Archer hubs irritating. The 8 speed though is something else. When you get into the higher gears, you have pawls in multiple stages ratcheting in the ring gear teeth at a high frequency. Swarm of hornets is a good way to characterize the sound.
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Old 11-03-14, 08:58 PM
  #33  
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One of my earliest childhood memories is the tick-tick-tick of my mom's Sturmey Archer hub as I rode in the kiddie seat. Today, her hub is on one of my bikes, as she gave it to me when she got a new bike.
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Old 11-04-14, 04:50 AM
  #34  
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I pulled the trigger on a Shimano Alfine 11. This deal just seemed to good to pass up:

Amazon.com : Shimano 2014 Alfine 11-Speed Internal Bicycle Hub - SG-S700 : Bike Hubs : Sports & Outdoors

If you look closely, there is a vendor in the US selling it for US $252. A tiny part of me is saying its too good to be true, so we'll see. If the deal ends up failing, I'll seek out that S-A 5 speed. Something about the S-A units keep me intrigued and thinking it represents a sweet spot solution for many IGH customers, and certainly it has an attractive price, relatively speaking.
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Old 11-04-14, 05:34 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Bravin Neff View Post
Something about the S-A units keep me intrigued and thinking it represents a sweet spot solution for many IGH customers
I've been saying that for a long time.
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Old 11-04-14, 11:21 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
I've been saying that for a long time.
I will add that the North American customer support for S-A hubs has been unexpectedly good in my experience.
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Old 11-04-14, 11:28 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Matariki View Post
I will add that the North American customer support for S-A hubs has been unexpectedly good in my experience.
Hmm... making me think twice about my choice.

Last edited by Bravin Neff; 11-04-14 at 01:04 PM.
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Old 11-05-14, 04:54 AM
  #38  
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How do you folks select a new crank with the correct chainline? For example, the Shimano Alfine 11 says the chainline is 41.8mm. But if you go to (e.g.,) performancebike.com or nashbar.com, chainline info isn't attached to the cranksets, even the single speed ones.
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Old 11-05-14, 06:17 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Bravin Neff View Post
How do you folks select a new crank with the correct chainline? For example, the Shimano Alfine 11 says the chainline is 41.8mm. But if you go to (e.g.,) performancebike.com or nashbar.com, chainline info isn't attached to the cranksets, even the single speed ones.
Yeah, this is a problem. I deal with it by trial and error sometimes, but that's OK for me because I always have a stock of various length bottom brackets on hand.
I have also found that even when there is published chainline specs, they can be off.
I have found that with Sturmey Archer hubs at least, with a single chainring type crank, I've always been able to dial in the chainline with a 110 or 113mm bottom bracket by arranging spacers on the hub axle, or flipping dished cogs or switching to flat cogs.
You could flip cogs on a Alfine 11, but you would not be able to do it with the stock cog with the chain guard attached. That one must be mounted dished side in.
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Old 11-05-14, 08:34 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
Yeah, this is a problem. I deal with it by trial and error sometimes, but that's OK for me because I always have a stock of various length bottom brackets on hand...
Thanks for the detailed help. As my bottom bracket is square taper (and will likely stay that way), it makes sense you can manipulate chain line by changing bottom bracket spindle length, as one method. Digging into various crankset mfg websites, it seems that it really isn't a big deal to find a crankset that matches or is close to the idealized chain line, and you just tweak from there.
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Old 11-05-14, 09:12 AM
  #41  
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If you use a locked-out derailleur as a chain tensioner, chainline does not have to be perfect, but derailleur alignment does. Derailleurs are designed to take a multi-speed chain in at an angle and place it properly aligned on the cogs. There is probably a slight loss of efficiency in the chain if it is being pulled toward the chainring at an angle, but if you have a 'close-enough' chainline (within 5mm or so), this effect will be minimal. If you try to fudge chainline with a single speed chain or while using some chain tensioning method other than a derailleur or derailleur style tensioner, you will not like the results.
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Old 11-05-14, 10:33 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Wilfred Laurier View Post
If you use a locked-out derailleur as a chain tensioner, chainline does not have to be perfect...

Great points. One of my motivations for an IGH isn't just the replacement of a derailleur, but also to recapture the advantages of the single speed. These include going back to a non-derailleur type chain that doesn't expect to be flexed laterally, and changing over to the deeper-tooth style chains rings and cogs that by their very design prevent derailment. I think the whole package results in longer chain life, and is characterized by lower maintenance costs overall, whether you measure those costs in monetary terms, time, aggravation or whatever. I guess what I'm trying to say is I wouldn't convert to an IGH and then continue to use derailleur type hardware, including the chain.
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Old 11-05-14, 12:55 PM
  #43  
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I'm interested in seeing how you like this. I don't like IGH's primarily because the steps between gears are too wide. The 11-speed has enough gears that they can be close enough for me.
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Old 11-05-14, 02:17 PM
  #44  
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The attractive thing about the Alfine 11 is that, apart from the 1-2 jump, the other gear jumps are all about 13%-14% steps. That's consistent with the typical 8-9 speed cassette, so I am anticipating it to feel "natural." But another part of me wants to get simpler and live with the bigger steps found on, e.g., the S-A 5 speed hub. Some of us (I'm talking about myself) try to dig in and insist we can't have it any other way, given the 8-10 speed systems prevalent, but the experiences of others on IGH's suggest we can all probably adapt quite easily.
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Old 11-05-14, 03:03 PM
  #45  
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I've tried 3- and 5-speed hubs several times and didn't like them. I know it doesn't make much sense, because I don't have the problem with a one-speed hub.
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Old 11-05-14, 03:09 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Bravin Neff View Post
The attractive thing about the Alfine 11 is that, apart from the 1-2 jump, the other gear jumps are all about 13%-14% steps. That's consistent with the typical 8-9 speed cassette, so I am anticipating it to feel "natural." But another part of me wants to get simpler and live with the bigger steps found on, e.g., the S-A 5 speed hub. Some of us (I'm talking about myself) try to dig in and insist we can't have it any other way, given the 8-10 speed systems prevalent, but the experiences of others on IGH's suggest we can all probably adapt quite easily.
Price advantage also with the SA. You can experiment a lot cheaper and it comes with the shifter. I paid $165 for my SA 8-speed.
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Old 11-05-14, 07:22 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Coal Buster View Post
Price advantage also with the SA...
Oh I hear you and agree. Note the source linked to above is selling the Alfine 11 at US $252, brand new. Time will tell if that is real (the seller said he is shipping tomorrow), but if it is, that is a substantial savings over the normal price. If not for the fire-sale pricing I would have bought the SA-5... and I still might!
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Old 11-05-14, 07:24 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I've tried 3- and 5-speed hubs several times and didn't like them. I know it doesn't make much sense, because I don't have the problem with a one-speed hub.
That's interesting. I'd like to live with a 3 speed for a while and see if I acclimate to it.
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Old 11-05-14, 07:33 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Bravin Neff View Post
I pulled the trigger on a Shimano Alfine 11. This deal just seemed to good to pass up:

Amazon.com : Shimano 2014 Alfine 11-Speed Internal Bicycle Hub - SG-S700 : Bike Hubs : Sports & Outdoors

If you look closely, there is a vendor in the US selling it for US $252. A tiny part of me is saying its too good to be true, so we'll see. If the deal ends up failing, I'll seek out that S-A 5 speed. Something about the S-A units keep me intrigued and thinking it represents a sweet spot solution for many IGH customers, and certainly it has an attractive price, relatively speaking.
For that price you really can't go wrong.
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Old 11-05-14, 08:41 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Bravin Neff View Post
That's interesting. I'd like to live with a 3 speed for a while and see if I acclimate to it.
Basically, you have to be willing either to pedal within a wide range of cadences or to change your speed drastically when you shift. As @Velognome told me, you have to relax and go at a slower pace. That's what I have trouble with. I guess when I'm on a bike, I'm more of a go-go-go type of guy.
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