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Cassette change Chain Length

Old 11-08-14, 01:29 PM
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Cassette change Chain Length

New cassette on order. I am changing from a 11-32 to a 11-28. Present chain is 110 links long. I have used the Park Tools equation to calculate both cassetts and it agrees with the 110 length of the present chain and gives me 108 for the new 11-28 cassette.

My question is if I do not shorten the chain to 108 for the 11-28 cassette will it work okay? I have a new chain on order also but want to try the new cassette for a short period to be sure I want to make the switch and therefore would prefer not to shorten either chain until I am sure I want to switch.

Trek Domane 4.5 11 speed
New cassette 11-28 Ultegra
Present 11-32 cassette 105
New chain Ultegra or possibly KMC X 11 SL dlc
Present chain 105

Roy
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Old 11-08-14, 02:22 PM
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You should have no problems. The worst case is you may have extra slack in the chain in the small cog/small chain ring combination. Most people recommend that you not use this combination, but it does happen.
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Old 11-08-14, 02:36 PM
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Since the smallest cog is the same, you won't have anymore slack.
You "could" shorten the chain 1 link set, but why?
Think of it as having a "spare" link set in case the chain breaks.
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Old 11-08-14, 04:12 PM
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No reason to shorten the current chain. If the derailleur is the same you already know it can wrap the current length, as noted above there's no diff on the small cog, and you can spend your time riding instead of shortening the chain. If you want to shorten the new chain that's fine, but again the derailleur is designed to shift the longer chain well. In fact some GT derailleurs do more poorly with a tighter cassette (though yours is not that tight).
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Old 11-08-14, 06:26 PM
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And another thought.
IF your current chain & cassette are in "decent" condition, keep them together since they wear with each other.
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Old 11-08-14, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
And another thought.
IF your current chain & cassette are in "decent" condition, keep them together since they wear with each other.
Thanks for all the quick and good advice. I thought I was ok but being somewhat new to these bikes I wanted some expert input.

I plan to keep the old chain and cassette, they have less than 1000 miles on them. I am interested to see if the Ultegra cassette and chain make much difference in shifting.

I have been told the Dura Ace crank and chaining would be a good upgrade, lite and more stuff?

My first time on this site, seems like a great place for someone like me that is just getting into biking.

Roy
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Old 11-08-14, 07:19 PM
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If you have money to toss away.
I doubt that you'd see a noticeable difference unless you're some top notch racer.
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Old 11-08-14, 08:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Roypw View Post
Thanks for all the quick and good advice. I thought I was ok but being somewhat new to these bikes I wanted some expert input.

1. I plan to keep the old chain and cassette, they have less than 1000 miles on them. I am interested to see if the Ultegra cassette and chain make much difference in shifting.

2. I have been told the Dura Ace crank and chaining would be a good upgrade, lite and more stuff?

3.My first time on this site, seems like a great place for someone like me that is just getting into biking.

Roy
1. Not likely to see much difference at all that is not connected to them being new. In most cases the higher levels of components are more a matter of finish and weight (more on that below) than operation.

2. Did the person who told you that have an interest in selling you such an item? If not are they willing to chip in to pay for that extravagance? It's just silly to buy a BB because it's a few ounces lighter. Maybe better quality (not necessarily lighter) tires would help, or some weight off the engine instead. You need to keep in mind that when actually riding the bike weight is calculated as follows: Weight of all components + weight of grease + weight of air in tires + WEIGHT OF RIDER). As for stiffness (I assume you meant "more stiff") that varies more by type of BB than by component class, and even then it's a minor consideration as far as efficiency.

3. Yes there are a lot of resources here, and it sounds like you are open to learning, so enjoy!
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Old 11-08-14, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Roypw View Post
New cassette on order. I am changing from a 11-32 to a 11-28. Present chain is 110 links long. I have used the Park Tools equation to calculate both cassetts and it agrees with the 110 length of the present chain and gives me 108 for the new 11-28 cassette.

My question is if I do not shorten the chain to 108 for the 11-28 cassette will it work okay? I have a new chain on order also but want to try the new cassette for a short period to be sure I want to make the switch and therefore would prefer not to shorten either chain until I am sure I want to switch.

Trek Domane 4.5 11 speed
New cassette 11-28 Ultegra
Present 11-32 cassette 105
New chain Ultegra or possibly KMC X 11 SL dlc
Present chain 105

Roy
When in question it's always better to run the chain longer rather than shorter. The chain may hang slack in the small/small combo that you shouldn't be in, but it won't cause any damage. Locking up in the big/big combo can cause some serious grief.
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Old 11-09-14, 12:35 PM
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Thanks cny-bikeman. You are right about the weight of the engine! I do pretty good, especially for my age, but would like to drop another 5 or 10. I think I will skip on the Dura Ace crank upgrade then, and yes it was a LBS employee. I did put a set of Continential GP 2000 s II's on it. I did some research but should have joined this forum first.

Really like this forum and I it looks like I have a lot of good reading to do.

Roy
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Old 11-12-14, 11:36 AM
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OK the new cassette is due today. I have researched this but would really appreciate comments and/or advice on what I am about to do as follows:

I plan to change chains so I think the process is to push a pin, (not the master pin) someplace on the chain opposite the master pin. At least not too close to the master pin. I plan to use a KMC X 11 SL chain with the missing link that comes with that chain on the new cassette cut to the length as discussed above.

if I ever go back to the old cassette I would like to use a missing link instead of the master pin. I will have to remove a half link if I do this.

Any cautions, tips or tricks to removing and replacing to cassette. This is my first but think I understand the basic process.

thanks

roy
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Old 11-12-14, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Roypw View Post
Thanks for all the quick and good advice. I thought I was ok but being somewhat new to these bikes I wanted some expert input.

I plan to keep the old chain and cassette, they have less than 1000 miles on them. I am interested to see if the Ultegra cassette and chain make much difference in shifting.

I have been told the Dura Ace crank and chaining would be a good upgrade, lite and more stuff?

My first time on this site, seems like a great place for someone like me that is just getting into biking.

Roy
Keep the old chain as-is. It should be about 1/3 through its life. You should replace chains 3-4 times for every cassette and middle/small chainring. If you let the chain go for longer, then it starts to exponentially wear out the rest of the drivetrain, leading to some very expensive premature replacements. Chains cost $25.

I have both Dura-Ace and Ultegra 10-speed era cranks. I cannot tell the difference. But it would be a good upgrade for your shop as it would allow them to sell you $500 worth of parts, and then 'dispose' of you old stuff on Ebay for their beer-money account.

The shifting quality between new Tiagra and new Dura-Ace rings, cassettes and chains is also indistinguishable. Slight difference in weight. Since the larger cassette cogs in Dura-Ace cassettes are titanium, they will wear faster than the steel cogs in the 'lesser' cassettes. And have you priced out a Dura-Ace cassette??

When you do wear out some of the cogs on your cassette, don't just chuck the whole thing. You may be able to replace just the cogs that wore. Shimano and the shops will tell you that this will lead to a the universe being swalled by a black hole, but I can't tell the difference in shifting if I replace just the two cogs I always wear out first.

Shimano chains are the good stuff. Best chains I have ever used in terms of shift quality and longevity. They are super quiet too. And the pressed pin connection is the most secure in the business. Shops hate them, as install takes slightly longer than a quick-link based chain; they actually have to spend a minute to read the freakin' instructions. Make sure you install them the right way (the 10-speed variety have an outer and inner orientation), and you install the pin the correct way.

Good luck.
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Old 11-12-14, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Wordbiker View Post
When in question it's always better to run the chain longer rather than shorter. The chain may hang slack in the small/small combo that you shouldn't be in, but it won't cause any damage. Locking up in the big/big combo can cause some serious grief.
Again, the chain will be no different in the small/small combo - small cog is the same size!
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Don't tell me what "should" be - either it is, it isn't, or do something about it.

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Please respect others by taking the time to post clearly so we can answer quickly. All lowercase and multiple typos makes for a hard read. Thanks!
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Old 11-13-14, 11:10 AM
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Cassette Diagram?

Does anybody know what this diagram means? At first glance it indicates this cassette should not be used on a road bike! I know the CS6800 is a road bike cassette. Is this diagram telling us not to use it on an MTB?

Shimano cs6800 cassette 11-28
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
image.jpg (99.0 KB, 31 views)

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Old 11-13-14, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Roypw View Post
Does anybody know what this diagram means? At first glance it indicates this cassette should not be used on a road bike!
Don't be alarmed, Shimano just labels their wider-range cassettes as "MTB" and tighter cassettes as "road", but your 11-28 would work on either.

ON EDIT: I missed what Bill caught -- that it appears the MTB cassette has a dished large cog, or one that overhangs the FH body more than the road cassettes. I'm not sure what the real-world implications are, so I'll leave it up to those with more experience...
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Old 11-13-14, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Roypw View Post
Does anybody know what this diagram means? At first glance it indicates this cassette should not be used on a road bike! I know the CS6800 is a road bike cassette. Is this diagram telling us not to use it on an MTB?
Cassettes don't know or care what kind of bike they're on. Shimano often marks wider range for mtb because they may exceed the range of short cage road derailleurs. But RD capacity is the only issue, and as long as the RD has the capacity there's no reason that any cassette can't be used on any bike.
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Old 11-13-14, 12:23 PM
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I bought a 9 speed HG-50 (12-27) sometime back and the rivet heads were protruding so much on the largest cog, I had to file them down to allow the lock ring to get adequate purchase.
That was on a FH-RM30 (cheap) hub.
Maybe by design?
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Old 11-13-14, 03:02 PM
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It's only a difference of 4 teeth (on the largest cog), so it should be fine. If not, simply remove a link. The small cogs are the same, so you shouldn't have an issue with the chain dragging on the derailleur. Also, make sure to adjust the B-screw, on the rear derailleur, since you'll be running a different size large cog.

Check out this link:
Derailer Adjustment

Scroll down and read the part about "Chain Length."
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Old 11-13-14, 08:45 PM
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Maybe I am missing something here but I don't see an answer in today's replys to my question in the post today - what does the diagram on the back of the 6800 cassette box mean? See the picture in the post.

i even called Shimano, they don't know.
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Old 11-13-14, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Roypw View Post
Maybe I am missing something here but I don't see an answer in today's replys to my question in the post today - what does the diagram on the back of the 6800 cassette box mean? See the picture in the post.

i even called Shimano, they don't know.
Not that it matters but yes, you seem to be missing something. It's hard to read the print on the image, but it appears that they're trying to say something about different cassette width for road and mtb 11s. Though I can't read the numbers, one pictured cassette is clearly wider than the other.

You have the box, and maybe with my hint, you can take it the rest of the way.
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Old 11-13-14, 09:11 PM
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It looks like the MTB cassette has a dished largest cog.
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Old 11-13-14, 09:59 PM
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I'm anything but a Shimano expert (never owned or rode Shimano), but I wonder if the freehub body on a road hub might be a different width and/or position than an mtb hub. It appears that one cassette has the rear sprocket offset behind the plane of the stop on the body. That would have it sitting closer to the spokes, and if it's the same width, farther from the right dropout. I couldn't read the print and have no idea which is which, but I assume someone who knows Shimano can take it from there.

(Where's Dave (Hillrider) when we need him.
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Old 11-13-14, 11:04 PM
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It means don't put your 11 speed 6800 road cassette on an 11 speed MTB hub.
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Old 11-14-14, 07:29 AM
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Sorry about the clarity of the print in the picture above. It's a real clear picture and even if I look at it now in the post on my iPad i can read the print? Must be some resolution is lost somewhere between me and other readers. I think BradH is right but sure not a Very straight forward message. Most of them in the Shimano docs are pretty easy to understand and helpful.

Thanks all
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Old 11-14-14, 10:54 AM
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Ignore the print and compare the pictures
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