Welding
 

Anyone with a little welding experience? I need to finally take the dive and start some simple welding. What advice might you give to this old newb? While I have welded in a shop class many decades ago but, I do not claim to recall much of anything I learned back then. I guess MIG might be the way to go to weld an occasional steel frame, fabricate a rack, a trailer, my garden gate, etc. Yes?

Since I'd figure only to use this once every couple of months or so, I can't look to pro quality (nor does my bank account). That said, I also appreciate that a good quality tool might save some time and frustration for this neophyte. Would you agree? Or is a Harbor Freight 90 amp thing of good enough quality to get my simple jobs done? I only want to fix and fabricate better than nuts, bolts, bailing wire, duct tape and hot glue.

HF? Lincoln? Hobart? Anyone?

Thanks for any wisdom.

Post in the frame building section to get more experience replying. Andy.

(wire-feed)MIG/MAG is a so-so choice for making bikes. Decent bike-appropriate tubing is fairly thin, and it'll be easy to burn a hole.
Likewise making a garden gate will be kinda borderline for how thick it can manage.
Doable, but you need to prep and plan your seams well.
A stick/arc welder would be a better choice for things like that.
If I was on a budget, and wanted to build both bikes and garden gates I'd probably opt for an oxyacetylene gas welding kit.
One set of nozzles would let you braze a bike frame, another would let you do the garden gate.
As long as you stay away from thin sheet metal, it'll do OK.

Why not refresh your training by taking a class at a local vocational school? The instructors there will likely be good sources of information on your hardware purchase as well.

+1 This was my first thought also. Get updated by experts.

Ever been to a muffler shop?

I have both an Arc and a Oxy-Acetylene that I use the most I've got some 251 cu ft oxy & 145 cu ft acetylene tanks and lasts me a few years never needed a Mig - Tig welder but would be nice to have.
All or mosy small jobs I'll use Oxy-Acetylene most but for heaver stronger stuff like trailers I'll use the Arc welder.
I'd also most likely suggest a Oxy-Acetylene setup fir your use but as others have mentioned maybe take a class to refresh your usage with one and may get a nice discount on some equipment from the school.
If you are interested in a oxy-acetylene welding kit have an extra new never used PM me if interested.

While I won't be building frames, as Andy R suggested, the frame building section might yield more information or, um, confusion for me.

I agree Dsbrant, I should MAKE time to take a class. Thanks to all for your input; I wish I could say I were less confused now. MIG/MAG/Stick/Oxy-Gas... Ug!

Taking a series of classes is the way to go... I have some experience with stick welding, tig welding and mig welding but I wouldn't feel comfortable building anything without putting in at least twenty or more hours of practice on any of the above. Then there are considerations of tube thickness, materials, etc. that would change your settings so it's difficult to just "cookbook" it without having a solid background. For me, at least, I know that TIG is my preferred technique so if I wanted to get better, I'd probably find someone willing to give maybe ten hours of one-on-one lessons over a month and then I'd practice a ton.

MIG vs TIG... I just prefer to hold the wire in my hand rather than having it fed from a machine.

TIG , is a common welding technique for Frame Production these days .. Tungsten electrode & Inert Gas to surround the puddled bead from the molten filler wire.

This.

I did a local high school adult ed welding class before doing a bicycle frame-building seminar. Helped a lot. Then I furthered that with an intro to welding class at a local community college and a refresher at a local makerspace. Learn a bit of stick and MIG and you'll be good for most welding, but try your hand at TIG as well. The community college class also covered torch and plasma cutting.

Welder costs:

Stick
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Mig
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Tig.

But, considering the high initial cost of a TIG unit, you can generally also use them to stick weld. Stick welding is primitive; MIG is quick and dirty; TIG is precise but overkill in most applications and more expensive. I don't know of any high-end custom bike mfgs using anything other than either TIG or brazing, but I have seen messengers and alt-bike people riding MIGged and Stick welded abominations.

The other bike forum's frame section regularly has threads about welding techniques and equipment. Andy.

The VSalon Frame Forum

Many of those classes the cost of the class is far cheaper than the welding supplies you will use taking the class, several people have told me this. IE they are a great value, you burn up the course cost in gas, welding rods, etc.

Bill

Good point Willbird.

Thanks Headloss and Mconlonx. This is good, specific information that helps. Maybe Sitck is the way to go. Cheap, old-school, easy? My repairs won't be for show or resale so I don't much care if it falls into the "abomination" category. Regardless, a welded repair would be better and look better than duct tape.

And you get an experienced welder whose job it is to hold your hand while you learn. :thumb:

For what? To see Pros tackling thin sheet metal w/o burn-through from a MIG welder?
I never said it was impossible, just that it's difficult. But people learn to do difficult things all the time. No surprise there.
Or to see people tackling sheet metal with oxyacetylene torches? Mufflers aren't big enough or flat enough for warping to be much of a problem, compared to say bodywork on a car. And again, a good Pro can make any task look easy.

All the muffler shops I've been to use Oxy-Acetelyne, although i must admit it's been a few years since I've been in one.
Easier to control the heat on thin metal on parts that may have poor accessibility such as in place exhaust systems.
And warping isn't a concern for such applications.

Some bike frame builders hold frame building classes. Something to consider.

Tig for aluminum. Stick for thick things like I-beams and structural repair. Mig for quick and dirty like car body work, your kid's wagon. Oxy for steel bike frames and other art projects.

Tig and oxy take dedication to be competent.

Oxy setup will weld anything you have....just like Tig......With some practice,you can even weld aluminum with it......Mig is fine for new material or old material you don't mind inclusions in.....Arc welding is great for your fence,not so great for thin walled metals.....Tig welding is best by far,you have control over everything,it also has the biggest learning curve.

I would start with oxy setup....What you learn by oxy welding will help you with all types of welding.

You can teach a monkey to arc and Mig weld.....Not so with oxy and tig.

Oxy has an open flame which isn't appropriate in many circumstances. If you're serious about welding, start with Tig. If you just want something to fix things around the house, get a Mig. Tig welders can usually double as stick welders, if the need arises.

I can't see any reason to start with oxy unless you're doing art type projects which would include frame building.

Recommend look at the many post from folks making frames out of bamboo. It seems like a decent approach for folks without much in the way of tools or ability to purchase good ones.

I have a friend who built a hot rod in a vocational school class. He'd prep parts he was making all week and weld them in class one night a week.

I did it for 14 years and have said that you couldn't find a monkey dumb enough.