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How well can your favorite groupset handle water and dirt?

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How well can your favorite groupset handle water and dirt?

Old 11-21-14, 07:32 PM
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stealmyideaspls
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How well can your favorite groupset handle water and dirt?

I'm planning an endurance road bike build I want to tour the world with and really like the things i've heard of Shimano 105 5800. It's only $430 on multiple sites for STI, calipers, FD, short cage RD, 50-34 cranks, BB, 11-32 cassette, chain.

Think I will get it in silver, I heard the black coating wears off from shoe scuff.

When militaries want to adopt new guns they put them thru water dirt and abuse tests, I want to see groupsets going thru similar tests. Car folk think their saving the planet with their eco car, but I ask them how their cars emission/fuel economy control systems work and they scratch their heads hoping I can explain it to them. I explain that it consumes hazardous chemicals and the driver and occupants and anyone near their eco car is being poisoned. The occupants are relying on someone elses engineering they don't even slightly understand to move them around in the world. So now I need to tour the world by bicycle and absorb exhaust and road grime and be a role model. I'll fight the ones that declared WAR ON TERRA, by showing off to them.
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Old 11-21-14, 07:47 PM
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Humans have gone 800 kilometers in a day on bicycles, when I say this to people they say "wow some serious steroids must of been used", then I say "you can go 50 kilometers a day no problem", then they say "I won't because blah blah blah I hate your face David"
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Old 11-21-14, 07:51 PM
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I'm sure 11-speed groups are much more immune to water and dirt than old tech (say 8-speed).
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Old 11-21-14, 07:59 PM
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My 21 speed walmart GMC Denali has trouble dropping into highest gear when the RD gets rusty and dirty. But I finally got my settlement from that car that hit me from behind 2 years ago, new bike time.
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Old 11-21-14, 08:09 PM
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I always thought some kind of frictionless flexure bearings could replace the hinge pin design in a rear deraileur, then there is the issue of the chain tensioner bearings and the cog bearings.
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Old 11-21-14, 08:17 PM
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When my 9-speed Dura-Ace (7700) was exposed to dirty spray coming off the pavement the shifters in a short time became dysfunctional. A good dose of WD40 restored them to normal service. I've seen similar problems with other STI shifters. My 10-speed Campy Record shifters seem to be much more tolerant toward dirty spray. I've thought about this a lot and have come to the conclusion that Campy Ergo shifters are more reliable when dirty than Shimano STI. And I can honestly say that overall I like one brand as well as the other. They each have their strengths and weaknesses.
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Old 11-21-14, 08:24 PM
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SRAM X9 shifters are immune to... everything short of being dunked in a mud bath. I've also had good milage with Shimano Deore shifters though they do get gummed up every now and then.
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Old 11-21-14, 08:49 PM
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i abused, and the worst abuse i've ever given a bike, on a 9 month tour from dec-aug '95-96. had 1x8, with single suntour MTB friction shifter mounted to road bar, connected to a '95 XTR RD. UN75? BB. american classic front/rear hub with thread on freewheel. wheels were custom built 650c's with mavic rims. crank was american classic (broke at pedal-eye at about 15,000mi, after the tour), with american classic seatpost and 1980 vintage brooks professional saddle. brakes were suntour superbe. started with 650c 20mm contis and ended with new 26" wheels and 1x1/4 in back and a 1" in front.

bike was ridden and put away wet many times, with little or no cleaning. oil was applied to chain from discarded oil cans found at gas stations, but never really had any problems during the tour. had to replace chain/cassette/chainring at about the 7000mi mark. bike
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Old 11-21-14, 09:16 PM
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Thew first two postings by the OP bordered on the irrational but I'll assume they were serious questions. No road "brifter" of any make is really mud and grime resistant and they aren't intended for that kind of long term abuse. Cyclocross riders often use them but the attrition rate is pretty high. BTW, Cyclocross is as close as you'll find to the Military-type abuse testing of bike components.

If you plan a really long trip and will be away from bike shop help and easy parts replacement, consider downtube or barend shifters or, that wonderful combination of these elements, the Retroshift. Any of these are a far simpler mechanism then a brifter and will tolerate dirt and abuse much better.
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Old 11-21-14, 09:52 PM
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Exactly Hillrider. I keep second thinking this build cause of brifters, their the most expensive part of the groupset and the most fragile. But it would be so cool to just paddle-shift without taking my hands off the brake hoods position or bar hooks position. But I havent seen too many bar end shifters on drop (ergo or anatomic) bars.
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Old 11-21-14, 10:18 PM
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World round touring is best outfitted by equipment that is available is the most remote places you'll be going. If you think 11 speed STI replacement parts are out there in rural Asia, Africa or some other 4th world location then you'll have no problems when your bike develops the problems it WILL HAVE.

Reminds me of a story from my early frame building years. I was working for a guy teaching the ropes of building. His girl friend was also in the shop, learning to fix stuff. (She actually built her own frame then built it up). She was planning a year+ round the world trip. Her bike was using some old designs, even for then, like cottered cranks and 650b tires. When I asked her about this she said that she wanted to be able to repair the bike anywhere. At that time, 1978, cotterless cranks weren't common outside the Western world and 27" tires were an American and English size. A few years later I ran into her and asked how her trip went. She mentioned that the route soon changed from the plan and while she did have bike issues she was able to work around them each time. Andy.
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Old 11-21-14, 10:39 PM
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First stop I think is gonna be southern parts of europe since it's winter now, then I'll head north in summer.
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Old 11-22-14, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by stealmyideaspls View Post
Exactly Hillrider. I keep second thinking this build cause of brifters, their the most expensive part of the groupset and the most fragile. But it would be so cool to just paddle-shift without taking my hands off the brake hoods position or bar hooks position. But I havent seen too many bar end shifters on drop (ergo or anatomic) bars.
Barend shifters on drop bars are very common on touring bikes and were standard on cyclocross bikes until relatively recently.

I'll again mention Retroshifts. They are brake lever mounted downtube shifters that have most of the convenience of true brifters without the expense or fragility. They are available in 9, 10 and 11-speed Shimano/SRAM indexing compatibility and front shifting, like all barend and downtube shifters, is friction. You can shift with your hands on the brake hoods very easily. Their one downside is you can't shift from the drops but i find that a very minor inconvenience.
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Old 11-22-14, 08:55 AM
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Originally Posted by stealmyideaspls View Post
Humans have gone 800 kilometers in a day on bicycles, when I say this to people they say "wow some serious steroids must of been used", then I say "you can go 50 kilometers a day no problem", then they say "I won't because blah blah blah I hate your face David"
When I first started riding my friends were shocked when I'd drop in at their houses (the ones at about 30 miles away) they thought I had to be incredibly fit yada yada yada to pull that off. It's kind've amazing how much people want to believe they are incapable isn't it?
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Old 11-22-14, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by RaleighSport View Post
When I first started riding my friends were shocked when I'd drop in at their houses (the ones at about 30 miles away) they thought I had to be incredibly fit yada yada yada to pull that off. It's kind've amazing how much people want to believe they are incapable isn't it?
Years ago we had friends with a vacation home in Orlando and would go there for a few days in the winter. I had a bike stored there and my friend an I would ride most days and log 250 - 300 miles in the 10 or so days. When we got back I'd get two responses from others:

From non-riders it was; "WOW, did you do ANYTHING else?"
From riders it was; "Oh, I guess you didn't have much riding time."
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Old 11-22-14, 09:37 AM
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and an OT post: for rain riding, I prefer to ride either a fixed gear bike or a coaster brake bike. Either way with a front brake sporting koolstop salmon pads. Worst case scenario usually is a minor wipe down before putting the bike away, they handle water/mud/dirt just fine.

Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
Years ago we had friends with a vacation home in Orlando and would go there for a few days in the winter. I had a bike stored there and my friend an I would ride most days and log 250 - 300 miles in the 10 or so days. When we got back I'd get two responses from others:

From non-riders it was; "WOW, did you do ANYTHING else?"
From riders it was; "Oh, I guess you didn't have much riding time."
I wish I could take a vacation like that! So what was the real mix, lots of leisure time+ riding, or mostly riding?
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Old 11-22-14, 09:47 AM
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Originally Posted by RaleighSport View Post
I wish I could take a vacation like that! So what was the real mix, lots of leisure time+ riding, or mostly riding?
Pretty much just a few hours of riding most afternoons, say 30 to 40 miles locally. Sometimes we'd take lunch and eat at a local park but were never gone all day.
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Old 11-22-14, 10:31 AM
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My Favorite groupset , now, is the Rohloff IGH.
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Old 11-22-14, 10:41 AM
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The military may test guns "thru[sic] water dirt and abuse tests" but they also build them so that they can be taken apart rather easily and cleaned after each such use. If you did the same thing with your bike, it would last a very long time.

Washing the mud off of the bike with a hose, if available, and then spraying with a light oil to float the water off of the surface where it will evaporate is my strategy.
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Old 11-22-14, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Coal Buster View Post
The military may test guns "thru[sic] water dirt and abuse tests" but they also build them so that they can be taken apart rather easily and cleaned after each such use. If you did the same thing with your bike, it would last a very long time.
That's correct. The early failures with the Ay Are 15/M16 in the Vietnam war were the result of troops being told it needed nearly no maintenance or lubrication and they weren't provides with adequate cleaning equipment. Under field conditions this was clearly not the case and, after routine maintenance procedures were established, the problems diminished to a very low level.

Edit: the level of censorship on this site is incredible. I had to encode the initials A and R to get around it.
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Old 11-22-14, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by stealmyideaspls View Post

When militaries want to adopt new guns they put them thru water dirt and abuse tests, I want to see groupsets going thru similar tests. .
Groupsets do not vary that much in mechanical design except between STI and down/hb end shifters. Having been on a 10k mile tour I would agree with the above comments related to using components that are more common, less complex and more easily maintained. One can avoid a lot of problems with routine maintenance along the way.

Finally, there are few reasons to do a scratch build when there are quite a few touring bike options out there. REI alone has some good choices with bar end shifters. I purchased a Novara Randonee in 2009, and I only had to change pedals, saddle bar and stem (for proper fit and comfort) to get what I consider a pretty hardy touring bike. Again, having also toured in Canada, Mexico and Italy, of all the things one can do to prep for international touring, fretting over components and then ordering and installing them is dead last on the list of priorities.
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Old 11-22-14, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by HillRider View Post
Thew first two postings by the OP bordered on the irrational but I'll assume they were serious questions. No road "brifter" of any make is really mud and grime resistant and they aren't intended for that kind of long term abuse. Cyclocross riders often use them but the attrition rate is pretty high. BTW, Cyclocross is as close as you'll find to the Military-type abuse testing of bike components.

If you plan a really long trip and will be away from bike shop help and easy parts replacement, consider downtube or barend shifters or, that wonderful combination of these elements, the Retroshift. Any of these are a far simpler mechanism then a brifter and will tolerate dirt and abuse much better.
thanks for the headsup! i didn't know we were supposed to read the whole post. is it common practice to go to all that trouble?
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Old 11-22-14, 06:59 PM
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Thinking out loud here... For something robust, a wheel with a ball bearing hub, wide range cassette 12 - 28 or 34. Mate that to a Deore rear derailleur, 9 speed and a set of thumb / bar end shifters that can go from index to friction mounted on something like a "Paul's thumbies" or the shift mate as mentioned above.
I'd go with some "cross-tops" or "interrupter" brake levers and Paul's Thumbies in along with the drop levers. Either way, shifting is in reach of the brakes if you don't care for bar end shifters, and you do have something that can work with most stuff you can find along the way by going to friction mode.
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Old 11-23-14, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
I'm sure 11-speed groups are much more immune to water and dirt than old tech (say 8-speed).
Electrical cables with weatherproof connectors are a lot less affected by water and dirt than Bowden cables. They're not commonly available for fewer than 10 congs (Mavic had the Zap system in 1993).

Campagnolo Ultrashift (only 11 speed now) shifters are less sensitive to gunk than STI units (even 8 speed). Their older 8-10 mechanism was too, although the G-springs were a wear item requiring periodic replacement.

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Old 11-23-14, 06:29 PM
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I would love a derailleur that could be taken apart easily, the cheap derailleurs i've owned had hinge pins that were hammered in place like a rivet. If the pins had bearings that could be replaced that would supreme. Derailleur with rebuild kits for like $2 with a few pins and bushings and new cogs, stainless or weatherproof aluminum or carbon body. Components like a r i f l e that could be taken apart and maintenanced over and over. I want to build a bike like this.

I think I want a carbon frame fork and seat post, it's expensive to save a few grams, but only $800 for a Fuji frame and fork compared to $3000+ for some carbon framesets out there, i've never owned anything made of carbon composite before and have been sticking with alloy but my curiosity for carbon is peaking now. $2000 on a bike is no big deal, used car would cost more than that and a bicycle can transport me 10,000+ miles a year. I saw some already built Fuji's with 105 and Oval parts for $1500-$2000 on performancebike.com . What are oval brand wheels like? I heard it was a division of Fuji.

Vuelta Corsa Lite wheels are my first choice right now, sounds reliable with replacable cartridge bearings.

The bike I want to build or buy sounds stiff and unsuitable for bumpy roads but I've been riding 23 tires down dirt roads alot and I just stand up.

My touring destinations in the near future are bike friendly cities.

The retroshifters are interesting, friction shifter mounted on the brake lever. Electric derailleurs and my own homemade switches are on my research list, $3000 dura-ace super record Red electronic yeah right, maybe Ultegra Di2 drs on 105 cranks and cassette.

What about a mtb derailleur on 50-34 11-32 gearing, would the mech never need cleaning on road use? Sounds like alot of compatibility probs between dr and cassette. I just put a drop of boeshield t9 on the friction joints in my mechs.

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