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Ready for broken spokes . . .

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Ready for broken spokes . . .

Old 11-30-14, 07:21 PM
  #1  
ClarkinHawaii
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Ready for broken spokes . . .

I want to be ready to fix broken spokes on a variety of 26" and 700c wheels (whoever has a broken spoke).
I'm thinking my best move would be to buy the Hozan Spoke Threader, Hozan spoke cutter, and a bag of 50 silver blanks and a bag of 50 black blanks (both Wheelsmith 2mmx310mm): The only other options would be to try to stock a few of many different lengths, which doesn't seem feasible OR order individually as needed which totally would not work.



So is this going to do the trick? Any tips or better choices?

Also--is it feasible to do something similar with double-butted spokes? I'm thinking maybe stock 3 or 4 different lengths to bridge the span of possible needed lengths and then fine-tune with the threading machine. How close can the threads be to the step-down point of the double-butted spoke?

Thank you.
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Old 11-30-14, 07:44 PM
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It's been years and the tool might have improved since, but I had poor luck with roller head life with this item. To ensure decent life be sure to use a decent OIL based cutting oil formulated for steel. Look for something with both sulfur and chlorine as additives (best source is a plumbing wholesaler).

Threading butted spokes is the same as plain gauge, and you can probably get a decent range using only 2-3 different blanks.

Good luck with it.

BTW - make sure to get clean cuts before threading, The nipper may not be right, and a dull cable cutter can do a cleaner job. If you have a bench grinder, putting a small chamfer on the cut end will help prevent starting out at an angle (cross thread). Simply spin the spoke between your fingers as you do a quick pass.
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Old 11-30-14, 09:29 PM
  #3  
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Is there a standalone cutter that trims the blanks to a precise length? I can't see using the Hozan cutter on a significant quantity of spokes.
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Old 11-30-14, 09:50 PM
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Yes two come to mind. One is the Phil machine, a standard of LBSs for a few decades. I finally got mine a few years ago and am so glad I did. The other is the Morizumi. I've read really good things about this one but have no experience with ti otherwise.

Note that both are a few thousand $. Andy.
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Old 11-30-14, 09:52 PM
  #5  
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My bad. The question was for a stand alone cutter, not also a threader. For mere cutting I use a diagonal cutter and a bench grinder with a spoke rule. Simple and as good as my eyes are. Andy.
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Old 11-30-14, 10:01 PM
  #6  
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[TD="class: ProductName"] Wheelsmith 2.0/1.7 x 278mm (shortest cut 246mm) Silver Spoke Blanks. Bag of 50.
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[TD="class: ProductName Odd"] Wheelsmith 2.0/1.7 x 310mm (shortest cut 280mm) Black Spoke Blanks. Bag of 50.
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Good old Niagara--order will be here to greet the New Year! Anybody got a better deal?
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Old 11-30-14, 10:08 PM
  #7  
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
It's been years and the tool might have improved since, but I had poor luck with roller head life with this item. To ensure decent life be sure to use a decent OIL based cutting oil formulated for steel. Look for something with both sulfur and chlorine as additives (best source is a plumbing wholesaler).

Threading butted spokes is the same as plain gauge, and you can probably get a decent range using only 2-3 different blanks.

Good luck with it.

BTW - make sure to get clean cuts before threading, The nipper may not be right, and a dull cable cutter can do a cleaner job. If you have a bench grinder, putting a small chamfer on the cut end will help prevent starting out at an angle (cross thread). Simply spin the spoke between your fingers as you do a quick pass.
Thank you--Have I got my bases covered with the stuff I'm ordering (see post above)?
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Old 11-30-14, 10:13 PM
  #8  
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Originally Posted by Bezalel View Post
Is there a standalone cutter that trims the blanks to a precise length? I can't see using the Hozan cutter on a significant quantity of spokes.
My impression is that the Hozan deal is for odd jobs--For a wheel build "significant number of spokes" I would probably special order the specific lengths required. The cutting heads on the threading machine have a limited life, so I would want to use it sparingly . . . somebody correct me if I'm wrong here . . .
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Old 11-30-14, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ClarkinHawaii View Post
Good old Niagara--order will be here to greet the New Year! Anybody got a better deal?
Offhand NO, but the shipping is out of line. If you want to, ask how much to ship to me in Mount Vernon, NY 10550, and I'll repack and forward for $5.25 in a flat rate envelope.
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Old 11-30-14, 10:28 PM
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LBS owns a Hozan Thread Rolling tool .. Touring riders that need 1 spoke can get back on the road that way..
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Old 11-30-14, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Offhand NO, but the shipping is out of line. If you want to, ask how much to ship to me in Mount Vernon, NY 10550, and I'll repack and forward for $5.25 in a flat rate envelope.
I just plugged your zip code into my order, and the shipping is FREE!
If you're sure about this, pm me your mailing address and I'll have the order sent to you and will send you a check tomorrow for $10.
And I'm $11.55 ahead--Thank you!
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Old 11-30-14, 10:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ClarkinHawaii View Post
I just plugged your zip code into my order, and the shipping is FREE!
If you're sure about this, pm me your mailing address and I'll have the order sent to you and will send you a check tomorrow for $10.
And I'm $11.55 ahead--Thank you!
Beer money!!!!
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Old 11-30-14, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ClarkinHawaii View Post
Good old Niagara--order will be here to greet the New Year! Anybody got a better deal?
...probably too late to help you, but I'm relatively sure that AE Bike has better prices on DT Swiss straight gauge spokes.

At least they did the last time I ordered from them directly. Check their per box prices, and if you order anywhere near that much stuff, shipping is free.
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Old 11-30-14, 11:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...probably too late to help you, but I'm relatively sure that AE Bike has better prices on DT Swiss straight gauge spokes.

At least they did the last time I ordered from them directly. Check their per box prices, and if you order anywhere near that much stuff, shipping is free.
Appreciate the thought, but Niagara is $28 cheaper for the quantities I ordered. Also "free shipping" usually doesn't apply to Hawaii. Their cheapest shipping mode is $25.
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Old 12-01-14, 08:35 AM
  #15  
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I found a source that sells Sapim spokes at very good prices, considerable savings over Niagara's Wheelsmith:
https://www.danscomp.com/shop-RACE/s...d+Nipples.html

What I'm wondering now is whether the Sapim double-butted spokes' proportions correspond to the Wheelsmiths' for cutting purposes--for instance, the Wheelsmith say "length 310, shortest cut 280" and "length 278, shortest cut 246". Would the same hold true for Sapim? (Sapim site doesn't say anything useful in this regard, and I don't expect the vendor to know) Thank you.
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Old 12-02-14, 09:26 PM
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Here's a different approach. http://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-me...ire-wheel.html

Whether it's useful, depends on your application. Mine is as a volunteer mechanic on an organized ride event. The object is to get the rider back on the road as quickly as possible. If I'm lucky, I can use the nipple and don't have to pull the tire.
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Old 12-08-14, 10:08 PM
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I ordered from danscomp and saved money. However, upon receiving the order, there were 2 mistakes out of 7 items. Big hassles--the invoices are unintelligible gibberish--the verification email that i was supposed to check for accuracy didn't list the spoke lengths and was sent 5 hours after the order was sent out--have to try and rectify the situation over the phone rather than by email. A huge hassle with a trouble-prone system that has cost me more in time and stress than i saved. I cannot recommend them.
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Old 12-08-14, 11:22 PM
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I'm impressed. This was a straightforward order for blanks, how badly could they screw that up?

IMO- since you plan on doing this a while, consider keeping the stuff and using it up, rather than go through the time, hassle, and expense of returning.
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Old 12-08-14, 11:40 PM
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here's the email I sent them which explains all:

Hi--

It appears that there are a couple of mistakes in this order.

Your note at the top of the order confirmation email:
DansComp has processed your order. Please take a moment to review it for
accuracy and completeness.

is silly since it does not list the spoke lengths, so how am I going
to check it for accuracy?

Anyway, here's what I ordered;

a-50 stainless straight-gauge 310mm uncut
b-50 black straight-gauge 310mm uncut
c-50 stainless double-butted 301mm (capable of being shortened to 266mm)
d-50 black double-butted 301mm (capable of being shortened to 266mm)
e-50 stainless double-butted 266mm (capable of being shortened to 221mm)
f-50 black double-butted 266mm (capable of being shortened to 221mm)
g-100 black double-butted 261mm

Here's what I got:
a,b,c, e, g above are ok.
d is altogether missing (I received a total of 350 spokes instead of 400)
f-50 black double-butted 220mm (instead of 266mm)

So what I need to complete the order correctly is for you to send me
d-50 black double-butted 301mm (capable of being shortened to 266mm) and
f-50 black double-butted 266mm (capable of being shortened to 221mm)

and I need to return
f-50 black double-butted 220mm

Please let me know how you want to handle this.

Thanks, regards, Clark
//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
just for grins, here's the "order confirmation":


>
> Order Number: 3914434 Terms: Credit Card
>
> =============================================================================
>
> Part No Description Qty B/O
> Price Ext Price
> -------- ----------- --- ---
> ------- ---------
> ZZ-435910 Sapim Black 14G Spoke (A 50 0
> $0.35 $17.50
> ZZ-435110BLKEACH Sapim Black 14G Spoke (A 50 0
> $0.00 $0.00
> ZZ-435001SIL14EA Brass Nipple (EACH) Silv 50 0
> $0.00 $0.00
> ZZ-435905 Sapim Stainless 14G Spok 50 0
> $0.25 $12.50
> ZZ-435105SILEACH Sapim Stainless 14G Spok 50 0
> $0.00 $0.00
> ZZ-435001SIL14EA Brass Nipple (EACH) Silv 50 0
> $0.00 $0.00
> ZZ-899929EXPUSPS Shipping & Handling Alas 1 0
> $0.00 $0.00
> ZZ-435915 Sapim Stain 14/15G Spoke 50 0
> $0.40 $20.00
> ZZ-435115SILEACH Sapim Stain 14/15G Spoke 50 0
> $0.00 $0.00
> ZZ-435001SIL14EA Brass Nipple (EACH) Silv 50 0
> $0.00 $0.00
> ZZ-435920 Sapim Black 14/15G Spoke 50 0
> $0.50 $25.00
> ZZ-435120BLKEACH Sapim Black 14/15G Spoke 50 0
> $0.00 $0.00
> ZZ-435001SIL14EA Brass Nipple (EACH) Silv 50 0
> $0.00 $0.00
> ZZ-435915 Sapim Stain 14/15G Spoke 50 0
> $0.40 $20.00
> ZZ-435115SILEACH Sapim Stain 14/15G Spoke 50 0
> $0.00 $0.00
> ZZ-435001SIL14EA Brass Nipple (EACH) Silv 50 0
> $0.00 $0.00
> ZZ-435920 Sapim Black 14/15G Spoke 50 0
> $0.50 $25.00
> ZZ-435120BLKEACH Sapim Black 14/15G Spoke 50 0
> $0.00 $0.00
> ZZ-435001SIL14EA Brass Nipple (EACH) Silv 50 0
> $0.00 $0.00
> ZZ-435920 Sapim Black 14/15G Spoke 100 0
> $0.50 $50.00
> ZZ-435120BLKEACH Sapim Black 14/15G Spoke 100 0
> $0.00 $0.00
> ZZ-435001SIL14EA Brass Nipple (EACH) Silv 100 0
> $0.00 $0.00
> ZZ-895024G4*EACH Dans Comp FREE GIFT Cale 1 0
> $0.00 $0.00
> ZZ-899900 Danscomp Reward Program 1 0
> $0.00 $0.00
> ZZ-899971 10 Promotional Discount 1
> 0 $-17.00
>
> ---------
> Total Merchandise
> $153.00
> Sales Tax
> $0.00
> Shipping and Handling
> $24.00
>
> ---------
> Total Order Amount
> $177.00
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Old 12-09-14, 05:29 AM
  #20  
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I may be contributing this too late, but the Hozan threader rolling heads come in a standard version and a premium version for stainless spokes. If you don't get the one for stainless spokes, the rolling head does not last very long.
I would think they are a bit behind the times on this, seeing as how the industry has pretty much gone all stainless.
Before I bought the Morizumi machine, I used the Hozan for a great many complete wheels, an extremely labor intensive process. Think I went through about three rolling heads in about 7 or 8 years.

Last edited by Dan Burkhart; 12-09-14 at 05:35 AM.
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Old 12-09-14, 06:32 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
I'm impressed. This was a straightforward order for blanks, how badly could they screw that up?

IMO- since you plan on doing this a while, consider keeping the stuff and using it up, rather than go through the time, hassle, and expense of returning.
The problem was they make you do it over the phone; and the counter guys really didn't know much about the Sapim spokes (their main deal is BMX) and so they kept switching me over to "the spoke guy" who would explain what they had and then I had to go back to the counter guy and explain it to him and apparently something got lost in the process.

Also, according to what I was told, they only had blanks for the straight-gauge. The double-butted were prethreaded in 2 lengths that I could then shorten. I have no idea why this would be the case, but it's what I was told.

The ones they sent me that were wrong length are double-butted 220mm--I think too short for anything I will see, no?

Anyway, I will have to call again this morning and try to get it straightened out. If they say it's my fault and it's going to cost me more, I will not be happy. Since there is no written order correspondence to back me up, it's their word against mine if push comes to shove. Hopefully it won't.

In fairness to them, if I had called like a normal customer needing x spokes of y length, it probably would have gone OK. The whole issue got mucked up with trying to get blanks and cut-down-able lengths. It was something that comes along only rarely in their experience (I was the first and probably the last).
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Old 12-09-14, 06:37 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
I may be contributing this too late, but the Hozan threader rolling heads come in a standard version and a premium version for stainless spokes. If you don't get the one for stainless spokes, the rolling head does not last very long.
I would think they are a bit behind the times on this, seeing as how the industry has pretty much gone all stainless.
Before I bought the Morizumi machine, I used the Hozan for a great many complete wheels, an extremely labor intensive process. Think I went through about three rolling heads in about 7 or 8 years.
I think they may have discontinued the "standard" version you describe. The only replacement die they seem to make now is the C-706 for "stainless steel and steel". I looked on Amazon and on the Hozan website and in the instructions that came with the machine. If they currently offer 2 versions, they keep it a well-guarded secret.
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Old 12-09-14, 07:07 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by ClarkinHawaii View Post
I think they may have discontinued the "standard" version you describe. The only replacement die they seem to make now is the C-706 for "stainless steel and steel". I looked on Amazon and on the Hozan website and in the instructions that came with the machine. If they currently offer 2 versions, they keep it a well-guarded secret.
United Bicycle supply still sells both versions.

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Old 12-09-14, 08:12 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Dan Burkhart View Post
United Bicycle supply still sells both versions.

Huh, I'm confused, but that's nothing new. Hopefully I have a few years before I'll need to worry about a replacement.
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Old 12-09-14, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by ClarkinHawaii View Post
Huh, I'm confused, but that's nothing new. Hopefully I have a few years before I'll need to worry about a replacement.
Well, as long as you get the rollers for stainless , it's all good.
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