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which Shimano GS rear derailleur?

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which Shimano GS rear derailleur?

Old 01-20-15, 08:25 AM
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which Shimano GS rear derailleur?

I have two bikes with Shimano road triple Drivetrains. I'm using a Shimano 105 5603 triple crankset with 50, 39 and 26t chainrings. I installed the 26t inner ring, replacing the standard 30t.

I'm using a variety of 10 speed cassettes, including 11-23, 12-27, 12-30 and 11-32. On the road bike I'm using an Ultegra RD-6703 GS rear derailleur. On the Cyclocross bike, I'm using a Deore SGS RD-M591 9 speed rear derailleur. I'm using a CN-6600 chain on both bikes. These are new chains on clean divetrains.

I'll continue to use the cranksets as-is.

The Ultegra derailleur does not always respond to the shifter as well as the older Ultegra RD-6603 I was using. I occasionally need to shift the shifter twice, and then back shift to get the cog I want.

The Deore derailleur does not always shift to the smaller 11,12,13,14 cogs when on the middle or inner chainrings. I've had two different mechanics try to adjust the rear, without any change in performance. Both are highly experienced.



Any suggestions? Should I use a 105 series RD-5703 or a Tiagra RD-4603? I'd like to use a 32 cog on the rear cassette, but would like to avoid using a SGS mountain long arm rear derailleur.
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Old 01-20-15, 09:42 AM
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I have a 105, 5501, long cage which plays great with a 9 spd 11-30, and a 50-34 double. Don't know how it would play with the 26, as it's pretty close to full wrap now. Might be OK, just don't know.

You are sure that everything is aligned properly back there, right?
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Old 01-20-15, 09:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Wanderer
I have a 105, 5501, long cage which plays great with a 9 spd 11-30, and a 50-34 double. Don't know how it would play with the 26, as it's pretty close to full wrap now. Might be OK, just don't know.

You are sure that everything is aligned properly back there, right?
Good question. These are carbon frames that I've owned from when they were new. Neither bike has been crashed or dropped. One of the mechanics observed that the hanger was not very rigid.
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Old 01-20-15, 09:56 AM
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Are you adjusting the B screw when you change cassettes?
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Old 01-20-15, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
Are you adjusting the B screw when you change cassettes?
Yes. I haven't changed the cassette in more than a year. I'm using the 12-27 with the Ultegra RD and the 12-30 with the Deore. Both have been professionally adjusted and left as-is.

I want the option of changing to these four cassettes, but haven't been changing them recently.
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Old 01-20-15, 10:11 AM
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I also have a 12-25, which I can interchange with zero adjustment.
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Old 01-20-15, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
Any suggestions? Should I use a 105 series RD-5703 or a Tiagra RD-4603? I'd like to use a 32 cog on the rear cassette, but would like to avoid using a SGS mountain long arm rear derailleur.
Do you mean the RD-5701? The Medium cage version will work with a 32T cog (the small cage works with 30T cog), so that should work for you. I run the short cage with a 30T cog, it works great. I'm using a 12-30T 6700 series Ultegra 10-speed cassette, as there are no 105 cassettes that have bigger than a 28T big cog.
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Old 01-20-15, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by dr_lha
Do you mean the RD-5701? The Medium cage version will work with a 32T cog (the small cage works with 30T cog), so that should work for you. I run the short cage with a 30T cog, it works great. I'm using a 12-30T 6700 series Ultegra 10-speed cassette, as there are no 105 cassettes that have bigger than a 28T big cog.
Does RD-5701 provide a GS length cage? If it does, than yes. The 11-23, 12-27 and 12-30 cassettes are all Ultegra. There is 10 speed Tiagra 12-30. The 11-32 is a Sram road ten speed cassette.
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Old 01-20-15, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
Yes. I haven't changed the cassette in more than a year. I'm using the 12-27 with the Ultegra RD and the 12-30 with the Deore. Both have been professionally adjusted and left as-is.

I want the option of changing to these four cassettes, but haven't been changing them recently.
As we often see here, "professional" and "correct" are not always the same thing.
On another note, sometimes a bit "incorrect" will function better. I've ran into that on FDER's.
On an RDER, I'll play with a B screw to get best shifting. IF it ends up "correct" or not, it is what it is.
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Old 01-20-15, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
Does RD-5701 provide a GS length cage? If it does, than yes. The 11-23, 12-27 and 12-30 cassettes are all Ultegra. The 11-32 is a Sram road ten speed cassette.
Yes, it comes in SS and GS versions. Be careful to get it and not the RD-5700, which has a lower maximum cog size, but looks almost identical.
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Old 01-20-15, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
Does RD-5701 provide a GS length cage? If it does, than yes. The 11-23, 12-27 and 12-30 cassettes are all Ultegra. There is 10 speed Tiagra 12-30. The 11-32 is a Sram road ten speed cassette.
There's a wrinkle here that I hadn't been aware of (as I always run doubles). Apparently the GS FD-5701 is only rated for a 30T maximum cog if you are running a triple (32T for a double).
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Old 01-20-15, 10:35 AM
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Originally Posted by dr_lha
There's a wrinkle here that I hadn't been aware of (as I always run doubles). Apparently the GS FD-5701 is only rated for a 30T maximum cog if you are running a triple (32T for a double).
Interesting, they must be concerned about chain wrap capacity and a too-short chain. I always install a slightly too-long chain and just avoid the small-small combination. Even if I shift to the small-small, no serious damage will result, the chain just sags a little.
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Old 01-20-15, 10:45 AM
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In Shimanoese, I Thought GS RD was the shorter-medium, SGS, the long one..
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Old 01-20-15, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
In Shimanoese, I Thought GS RD was the shorter-medium, SGS, the long one..
GS RD is for modern road triple drive trains including Dura Ace, Ultegra, 105 and Tiargra. SGS is the Deore mountain drivetrains.

Back in the early days of Deore, SS and GS models were sold. When Deore evolved from touring to Mountain, the shorter rear derailleur arms were mostly eliminated from the product range.
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Old 01-20-15, 11:49 AM
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I'm using a Deore derailleur on my triple, 13 - 30 and is shifting fine, at least so far. The previous derailleur also worked well at first but then got flaky where no amount of messing with adjustment produced a cure. Eventually, I noticed the pivot of the mechanism allowed some lateral movement so that the idler just below the cogs would not stay aligned with the cog just above it. That amount of movement did not seem right to me so I installed the new shifter and all was well. At present, the replacement shifter is still working perfectly but I have noticed that it can easily be moved laterally, sort of like the old shifter but just not as badly. I have to wonder if the bushing about which the shifter arm pivots is wearing out with about 10,000 miles on it. I still have the old derailleur which I should take apart to inspect the bushing for learning purposes.
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Old 01-20-15, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by berner
I'm using a Deore derailleur on my triple, 13 - 30 and is shifting fine, at least so far. The previous derailleur also worked well at first but then got flaky where no amount of messing with adjustment produced a cure. Eventually, I noticed the pivot of the mechanism allowed some lateral movement so that the idler just below the cogs would not stay aligned with the cog just above it. That amount of movement did not seem right to me so I installed the new shifter and all was well. At present, the replacement shifter is still working perfectly but I have noticed that it can easily be moved laterally, sort of like the old shifter but just not as badly. I have to wonder if the bushing about which the shifter arm pivots is wearing out with about 10,000 miles on it. I still have the old derailleur which I should take apart to inspect the bushing for learning purposes.
I suspect when you write "shifter", you mean dérailleur.
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Old 01-20-15, 12:20 PM
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Sorry. Yeah, I meant derailleur.
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Old 01-20-15, 12:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Barrettscv
Interesting, they must be concerned about chain wrap capacity and a too-short chain. I always install a slightly too-long chain and just avoid the small-small combination. Even if I shift to the small-small, no serious damage will result, the chain just sags a little.
In my experience, a shorter chain will shift more reliably. I, too, run triples and a long chain. You may have success shortening your chain a little, if there's room. I don't like the big/big combination to be too tight, so i can understand your reasoning, i think.

Anyway, chain length is one of the variables that can affect derailleur positioning, chain tension(on the lower run), and overall derailleur performance.

Another variable is the lower spring. Is it preload adjustable? Some are, or were. My old accushift type rds can be taken apart and adjusted. Park tool should have that info on their website. https://m.parktool.com/blog/repair-he...lleur-overhaul

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Old 01-20-15, 04:57 PM
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I took my old derailleur apart a little while ago to inspect the main pivot. It is simple enough and I don't think much movement can develop just from that point. But there are several pivot points and it could be accumulated movement of the various points could account for flaky shifting. I'm thinking that a mere fraction of a turn in cable adjustment will effect shifting so that accumulated play in the mechanism itself could easily cause poor shifting.
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Old 01-21-15, 04:03 PM
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I just have to ask, what does the "B" screw do? I'm just getting into doing my own bike work and I'm not familiar with the "B" screw. Thanks.
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Old 01-21-15, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by kwcahart
I just have to ask, what does the "B" screw do? I'm just getting into doing my own bike work and I'm not familiar with the "B" screw. Thanks.
It sets the distance between the guide pulley and the cogs.

Backed out too much and the guide pulley can hit the cogs.
In too far (moving the guide pulley away from the cogs) can result in less crisp shifting.

Sometimes it doesn't seem to matter as long as it doesn't hit.
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Old 01-21-15, 04:55 PM
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Thanks Bill, I appreciate it. I've never adjusted it so I had no ideal what it did. Thanks.
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