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Epic Lube Battle

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View Poll Results: The Lube Battle
This is a stupid idea, don't bother
34
52.31%
It's epic, go for it
31
47.69%
Voters: 65. You may not vote on this poll

Epic Lube Battle

Old 01-21-15, 04:55 PM
  #1  
wphamilton
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Epic Lube Battle

I had an idea reading the Chain-L vs STP thread, that at first seemed weird enough to be interesting but as I think about it, could plausibly work. Instead of arguing about chain lube, why not an A-B test? I mean a true test, everything being exactly equal.

When I next buy a chain, I propose to lubricate half of it with chain-l, and half with STP. Whenever the chain needs more, I'll lube both halves again. I'm not finicky about clean and lube - I just do it when I hear something or it looks nasty, so this would be a true usage test. And then, I'll just note subjectively the appearance and objectively the chain length on both halves.

But it doesn't have to be those two oils. I normally use white lightning (because I'm cheap and use cheap chains) so I'll test that against whatever. I'm open to suggestions.

Also, anyone else could concurrently run a different battle, or do the same thing with just one lube as a control. Measure the two halves of their chain that is, just to see if there's a natural variation in normal use. Any takers?
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Old 01-21-15, 04:58 PM
  #2  
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Moderator-
Please execute this poster for starting ANOTHER chain lube thread
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Old 01-21-15, 04:59 PM
  #3  
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun View Post
Moderator-
Please execute this poster for starting ANOTHER chain lube thread
Where's the fun in that? I added a poll, moderators can vote
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Old 01-21-15, 05:06 PM
  #4  
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I have been pondering chain l and paraffin. That would be interesting for execution and results.

And I just got two new chains and a cassette yesterday.
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Old 01-21-15, 05:34 PM
  #5  
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Test: Which two of these things do not go together?
1) "epic"
2) lame
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Old 01-21-15, 06:02 PM
  #6  
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Originally Posted by joeyduck View Post
I have been pondering chain l and paraffin. That would be interesting for execution and results.

And I just got two new chains and a cassette yesterday.
Perfect timing. Can you do half a chain with paraffin? I had considered it for about a millisecond, but I realized that there's no way I could keep up with waxing the chain.
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Old 01-21-15, 06:13 PM
  #7  
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Why not, except for the issue of cross contamination as lube is transferred to sprockets and back to chains.

For my part, I find it interesting that Chain-L which was roundly pooh-poohed as sure not to work, when I introduced it, is now a standard of comparison. Back when I first started developing Chain-L, the market was shifting to lubes that were thin and getting thinner with each new product. Other than Phil Wood, who's always had a thick oil, Chain-L was way out in left field away from the pack. Since then we've seen a shift, and more and more thicker products are being introduced, some from the same folks who said impossible a few years back.

As for testing, there was some lab testing done while back, and Chain-L did well in terms of drag, but they didn't test weather resistance. For that I depend on the emails and posts from people who have been using it for a long time.
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Old 01-21-15, 06:27 PM
  #8  
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I dunno about "epic", but I voted for you to do it anyway. The Usenet r.b.t. crowd did experiments like this back in the day.
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Old 01-21-15, 06:28 PM
  #9  
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Lube gets transferred from chain to cogs, pulleys, chainrings, and then back to chain. Impossible to actually keep the two different chain lubes separate in the proposed experiment. Nice idea though.
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Old 01-21-15, 06:29 PM
  #10  
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Why not, except for the issue of cross contamination as lube is transferred to sprockets and back to chains.

For my part, I find it interesting that Chain-L which was roundly pooh-poohed as sure not to work, when I introduced it, is now a standard of comparison. Back when I first started developing Chain-L, the market was shifting to lubes that were thin and getting thinner with each new product. Other than Phil Wood, who's always had a thick oil, Chain-L was way out in left field away from the pack. Since then we've seen a shift, and more and more thicker products are being introduced, some from the same folks who said impossible a few years back.

As for testing, there was some lab testing done while back, and Chain-L did well in terms of drag, but they didn't test weather resistance. For that I depend on the emails and posts from people who have been using it for a long time.
but
Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
I avoid chain lube threads and don't discuss comparisons because I don't use the forum to make or support advert claims. . .
And the advert count just keeps on climbing.
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Old 01-21-15, 06:33 PM
  #11  
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Just say "NO"!
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Old 01-21-15, 06:34 PM
  #12  
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@FBinNY

My interest lies in which performs in the wet while minimizing grime and grit collection which is my main issue. While creating a maintenance schedule not to rigorous for my lazy dive train maintenance.

@wphamilton

I think I would be best to do one chain each with only one lube and switch chains on a regular schedule.
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Old 01-21-15, 06:37 PM
  #13  
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Well let me rile up a few here. IMO using wax for a job that is best performed by a lubricant is shall we say less than smart. A chain is a metal mechanical device. It needs OIL. Personally I have found that Mobil 1 to be the best.
A quart of Mobile 1 will last a rider for years to say the least. Further IMO a couple of oz of "bicycle chain lub" that cost an obscene amount of money is totally wasted.

I know that there are as many ideas on what to lub a chain with as there are cyclist. However the facts are stated above, so why not go with a little common sense and logic. Wax is not a lub, and horribly expensive mouse milk is little more than a waste of money.
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Old 01-21-15, 06:42 PM
  #14  
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Originally Posted by rydabent View Post
Well let me rile up a few here. IMO using wax for a job that is best performed by a lubricant is shall we say less than smart. A chain is a metal mechanical device. It needs OIL. Personally I have found that Mobil 1 to be the best.
A quart of Mobile 1 will last a rider for years to say the least. Further IMO a couple of oz of "bicycle chain lub" that cost an obscene amount of money is totally wasted.

I know that there are as many ideas on what to lub a chain with as there are cyclist. However the facts are stated above, so why not go with a little common sense and logic. Wax is not a lub, and horribly expensive mouse milk is little more than a waste of money.
Based on our difference of the definition of obscene...
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Old 01-21-15, 07:20 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by joeyduck View Post

My interest lies in which performs in the wet while minimizing grime and grit collection which is my main issue. While creating a maintenance schedule not to rigorous for my lazy dive train maintenance.
Pro Gold - Prolink chain lube is easy to apply (2 mins), awesome in wet (easily 100+ miles), last long time (easily 200+ miles in dry), and doesn't collect dirt like some (T9 for example)

I always appreciate when folks are sharing their opinions and findings about products we all use, even if it's a taboo here on BF. More is better, unless it starts to confuse...
The last thing I want to see, is lube/oil test - automotive style, where the winning product is made by company who paid for "independent testing"
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Old 01-21-15, 07:30 PM
  #16  
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Get a rope!!
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Old 01-21-15, 07:46 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by jyl View Post
Lube gets transferred from chain to cogs, pulleys, chainrings, and then back to chain. Impossible to actually keep the two different chain lubes separate in the proposed experiment. Nice idea though.
I doubt that there would be enough transfer to make any difference, but that would be easy enough to test.

Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Why not, except for the issue of cross contamination as lube is transferred to sprockets and back to chains.

For my part, I find it interesting that Chain-L which was roundly pooh-poohed as sure not to work, when I introduced it, is now a standard of comparison. B...
I'll test against Chain-L, or anything else reasonably suggested.
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Old 01-21-15, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by joeyduck View Post
@FBinNY

My interest lies in which performs in the wet while minimizing grime and grit collection which is my main issue. While creating a maintenance schedule not to rigorous for my lazy dive train maintenance.

@wphamilton

I think I would be best to do one chain each with only one lube and switch chains on a regular schedule.
Your test, your method. It seems reasonable.
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Old 01-21-15, 07:52 PM
  #19  
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Settling in for the winter. Bring it on! I've started using the new Liquid Wrench chain lube...kinda like it. Easy to modulate pressurized can. This is the second iteration of this chain lube. Improved. Much better. The thought of my vintage oiler full of Mobil 1 frees my mind up though!
That's it! I've added my 2 cents worth.
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Old 01-21-15, 07:56 PM
  #20  
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Originally Posted by AnkleWork View Post
but

And the advert count just keeps on climbing.
*poof* - away!

Forums are almost like magic that way
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Old 01-21-15, 08:08 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton View Post
*poof* - away!

Forums are almost like magic that way
And it really works, doesn't it.
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Old 01-21-15, 09:06 PM
  #22  
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The whole idea is to separate metal parts moving against one another; if they do not touch – they cannot wear.

Story (true one):
A Norwegian hydroelectric turbine had been running for 65 years; it had never stopped turning, its bearings were never inspected. Those bearings were ‘hydrodynamic’; they depended upon a film of oil to separate the turning parts. The oil (a liter or so) was changed at intervals. At long-last, the turbine was shut down for a long-deferred overhaul. There was no wear, none, no wear on the bearing surfaces; the final dimensions (inner & outer) of the bearing surfaces were the same as when the turbine was first assembled. Why --- Because The Surfaces Never Touched. The lubricating oil separated them for 65 years!

If they do not touch – they cannot wear.

FbinNY has an effective solution: an oil that is thick and stays in place.

The reason that thick oil is needed in bicycle chains is that the spaces between moving and loaded parts of the chain are large and irregular. Also, the chain is not submerged in oil as it ‘ought’ to be.

The best we can do is apply some ‘form’ of oil that stays in place, is thick enough to be effective and, hopefully does not attract much attention from CRUD (Carbon, Rust and Undesirable Dirt).

Google “Chain Kote” and follow its history. Chain Kote won every motorcycle chain comparison test I know of and its secret was that is stayed in place between the bearing surfaces of the chains.


There is much, much more I can say but --- this is the fundamental truth: If the metal parts of your chain do not touch ---- they do not wear.

Joe
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Old 01-22-15, 01:14 AM
  #23  
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This "new" topic about chain lubes reminded me about my solution to a squeaky hinges on an old, heavy, metal gate at one of my properties. Hinges were very rusty, and it was a good exercise each time when I open or close that gate.
We all talk how quiet chains are, how long in between applications, or how water resistant lubes are.
I used some cheap mineral oil on that gate, and it's quiet and super easy to open and close to this day, after just one application. From 0F to well above 90F, rain, snow, dust... you name it. It was over 25 years ago.
Yes, I know it's not exactly the same as bicycle chain, but it tells me that even regular oil can make a huge difference, especially in wet conditions.
I ride in wet and dry, and try to stay away from mud. In my opinion, wet lubes are the best. Only wet lubes provides lubrication, while "dry lubes" only provides a non sticky mud barrier, and have nothing to do with lubricating anything.

One test showed that Vaseline and Olive oil is far better in reducing friction of the chain, than many leading and more expensive bicycle chain lubes. Of course less friction may have nothing to do with less chain/drivetrain wear, weather resistance and so on, but at least it's an interesting fact

"Sticky and wet" is the name of the game IMO...
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Old 01-22-15, 07:58 PM
  #24  
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I use my own "mixture" of Castrol ATF+4 ( Synthetic Automatic Transmission Fluid ) and Penzoil Premium Wheel Bearing 707L Red Grease. I just combine the two until I get a "mixture" I feel will be thick enough to stay on the chain, yet "fluid" enough to penetrate into the rollers of the chain. Nothing scientific about the mixture, and I doubt I've mixed the two products together the same way twice. I just do the mixing by feel/looks that I guess can compare to pancake syrup. When I do a quick "cleanup" and "re-oiling" of the chain on the bike, many times I just use Remington Chainsaw Oil to give the chain some great lubricant until the next thorough cleaning. These two procedures seem to work for me and the chain and gear teeth seem to last for a long time. I ride in inclement weather infrequently. Mostly good weather and on roads and bike paths. Good conditions for chain longevity.
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Old 01-22-15, 08:07 PM
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...before I vote, I need to know what you're using for a control, and how the test will be double blinded..
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