le mans

my trusty reducteur h-72 penetrator doesnt work
tried tapping them with a hammer both ends to help release them but it caused a slight bend on one of them, had to panel beat it back

the phillips head on the screws are too small to get a proper grip on them with the screwdriver

they're rusted in

any clues?

FBinNY 

Sounds like they're rusted in. Possibly they were installed dry, or too much time and weather. However, if you've been riding this bike, they should have rusted in the right place, so there's no real reason to care if they can't be moved.

Many old timers used to saw the part that sticks out the back off flush, so it can't bend. (after adjusting and riding a while to find where they wanted the screw set)

kwcahart

Kroil. The best of the best to loosen rusted frozen screws. Might take a week of soaking, but it will usually loosen rusted in screws. I've seen it work on bolts on farm machinery that were left out in the weather for years.

FBinNY 

Yes, Kroil works, and some prefer PB Blaster. But there's a danger here. If you get overly worked up about removing these, you might make the mistake of breaking off the working end within the dropout, and be worse off than before. Likewise, if you loosen them, but strip the frame in the process.

Sometimes we're better off leaving bad enough alone, and quitting while it's still an option. If the axle position is OK (centered in chainstays) go ahead and give Kroil a shot, but don't get so goal oriented that you force and break the screw.

BTW- if these can't be removed (and must be), or if you snap one off, all hope isn't lost. There are ways of disintegrating them, and retapping the frame, but it's a specialty machine shop job, and expect to pay roughly $50-150 per side.

3alarmer 

.
...if they still work, I'd leave them alone. If they have to come out (sometimes they do), I have drilled out the old ones carefully and retapped the holes.

You do have to pay attention to what you are doing, and if you've not done similar stuff before, it might be a chore. If you drill them out straight, you can usually tap for the same metric size m3x.5 If you drill a little off, you will have to drill and tap them to a larger size, like m4. Or you can go with those other adjuster thingies that fit in the slot and move fore and aft when you loosen the screw, after you cut off the old ones and file smooth.

But yeah, try some kind of penetrant like CRC Freeze Off as your first step. Or leave them alone if your wheel centers.

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...drop-outs.html

dedhed

torch

3alarmer 

Also, I forgot to mention that you can cut a more usable groove in the head with a hacksaw blade........carefully.

79pmooney

And if very worst happens and they do break off on the inside, it is possible to center the hub in the dropout, center the tire in the chainstays and close the quick release. The bike I just put together came in this condition. And I have been doing this every time I put a wheel in. Trust me, if this job is within my abilities, it is within yours.

I've considered making a piece that fits into the end of the dropout to do this. Cheaper road bikes had such a piece in the 70s but my memory fails me as to what they looked like. Not a biggie. Way down on my priority list.

Ben

le mans

this bike was part of a give a way that i collected
i haven't ridden it yet, i'm just getting it ready for sale

i'd keep it if it wasn't too big for me, and a bit too 'pink' , i mean.. i'm comfortable with my sexuality but the colour pink just ain't me!

i decided to take your advice & leave those screws alone - let the new owner deal with it

[the thought came to mind to use dropout screws from a scrap bike that can be turned by hand]


i have another question
this particular bike is extremely difficult to centre the rear wheel
i vaguely recall when tightening the axle nuts on some bikes. the hub will shift slightly on the dropout the wheel would go out of alignment, so you would make further adjustments, hold it in place...tighten the nuts. done

not on this bike though.. it is very difficult, when you think you've got enough tension, the wheel is centered. then tighten up a bit more it will shift again.
tighten the left nut it will shift to the right, tigthen the right nut it will shift to the left, very fiddlely
i even tried holding the inside lock nut on the hub axle with a spanner inside the dropout to stop it from turning with-out success?

is there a problem somewhere that's causing this?

i thought it might be those dropout screws, ones slightly screwed in further than the other but that shouldn't cause it shifting when tightening the nuts.

Reynolds 

Probably the dropouts aren't aligned (parallel to each other).

le mans

hmm, that came to mind

i will jig something up to see if they're square, thx

this bike might've had a wider wheel hub fitted than standard
coz it had an indexted 6 or 7 spd [cant remember] shifter

the dropout is 5" from memory which takes a 5 spd freewheel, mightta got stretched

Reynolds 

Useful information by Sheldon Brown & John Allen here:

Bicycle Frame/Hub Spacing

le mans

the left side was out

i used this guys method...


bent a bolt in the process but i've got heads of spares if the situation arises again.

placed a wheel on there & those dropout screws are set dead centre, so that's alright - a consolation

only took a fews secs to tighten a wheel on

le mans

i did think about doing that. i was afraid of chipping the end off, she's frozen in solid!

bikeman715

The nuts need replacing , they not biting into the dropout to hold the wheel . If you don't want to replace them then try ruffing up the dropout with sandpaper so the nuts have something to bite on .

le mans

i used another wheel, therefore it had another set of bolts. lol

cheers for that. all in all she's falling into place.