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Spokes Not Made Of Steel

Old 02-14-15, 11:20 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
You don't need to test wheels. The engineering principal called superposition allows a test on a single spoke to be inferred to the system. A wheel is a linear system, superposition holds, Josbt knew that was the case. Look at a set of car spoker wheels on an old Jag, why aren't those butted?

Because weight differences as small as between butted and straight are irrelevant to cars?
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Old 02-14-15, 12:55 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by jyl View Post
Because weight differences as small as between butted and straight are irrelevant to cars?
Welcome to the conversation. The topic is, "do butted spokes have a longer fatigue life compared to straight gauge spokes". Nothing about weight was mentioned.
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Old 02-14-15, 01:01 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
Welcome to the conversation. The topic is, "do butted spokes have a longer fatigue life compared to straight gauge spokes". Nothing about weight was mentioned.
Silly me. I thought this thread was about alternate materials to steel for spokes. (see OP)
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Old 02-14-15, 01:07 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Silly me. I thought this thread was about alternate materials to steel for spokes. (see OP)
Yes, silly you, are you the thread cop now? 'Cause you need to write yourself a ticket, as if you never responded to OT in a thread during one of your +23k posts....
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Old 02-14-15, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
Yes, silly you, are you the thread cop now? 'Cause you need to write yourself a ticket, as if you never responded to OT in a thread during one of your +23k posts....
Which is why, after this thread took the current turn, I stayed off it.


BTW- it was a tongue in cheek comment based on the irony of telling the OP what the topic of conversation was.
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Old 02-14-15, 01:29 PM
  #56  
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Citizen's Arrest!

#t=91
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Old 02-14-15, 01:38 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
Welcome to the conversation. The topic is, "do butted spokes have a longer fatigue life compared to straight gauge spokes". Nothing about weight was mentioned.
This was the (my) initial post in this (my) thread:

"I am curious about spokes that are not made of steel.

Spectra fiber, for example, is supposed to have yield strength similar to high strength steel, at one eighth the density. Are any wheels made using spectra fiber spokes
"

My hope in this thread was to have a conversation about pros, cons, choices, and experiences with spokes not made of steel. We've talked about Spectra fiber and another type of flexible fiber. There has been some mention of titanium. The latest contribution were about carbon fiber/Kevlar spokes. All very much on topic and appreciated.

Naturally there will be some mention of steel spokes, since steel is the reference spoke material. But the topic being discussed here is not "the fatigue life of butted vs straight gauge spokes". If you'd like to start a thread on that, I will read with interest and, to the extent I can, participate.
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Old 02-14-15, 01:43 PM
  #58  
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I'm just responding to statements made in the thread, I didn't change the topic, those other posters did. If they didn't post incorrect/misleading statements, I wouldn't have bothered to respond. Thread creep isn't new, neither is getting so twisted up in this sub-forum.

"Write yourself a ticket, Barn!"
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Old 02-14-15, 02:02 PM
  #59  
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Does anyone know what type of spokes make the best skewers for cooking hotdogs over a camp fire? It's the number 1 concern for my next purchase.
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Old 02-14-15, 02:05 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by jyl View Post
This was the (my) initial post in this (my) thread:
My hope in this thread was to have a conversation about pros, cons, choices, and experiences with spokes not made of steel. We've talked about Spectra fiber and another type of flexible fiber. There has been some mention of titanium. The latest contribution were about carbon fiber/Kevlar spokes. All very much on topic and appreciated.
As others pointed out, there are titanium spokes out there: TI-DYE High-end and super light bike spokes
I'd love to have a wheel or three built with them, but I doubt they're useful for anything beyond gratuitous bling.

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Old 02-14-15, 02:06 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by jyl View Post
Because weight differences as small as between butted and straight are irrelevant to cars?
Maybe they tried butted spokes but decided against them because of the effect on ride quality.
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Old 02-14-15, 02:07 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by EvilWeasel View Post
Does anyone know what type of spokes make the best skewers for cooking hotdogs over a camp fire? It's the number 1 concern for my next purchase.
Stainless would be a good thing. But spokes are too thin and smooth for skewers since food would tend to slide off. Also they're a decent conductor of heat, and you want a better insulator so you don't have to wear gloves. Stick with wood, either brought or found.

BTW- I've toasted marshmellows using spokes. Nearly impossible unless you put a J-bend onto the end to catch the marshmellow when it starts to slide.
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Old 02-14-15, 02:14 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Which is why, after this thread took the current turn, I stayed off it.


BTW- it was a tongue in cheek comment based on the irony of telling the OP what the topic of conversation was.
Double irony because who it was who got the thread ot in the direction of auto wheels in the first place.
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Old 02-14-15, 02:19 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by FBinNY View Post
Stainless would be a good thing. But spokes are too thin and smooth for skewers since food would tend to slide off. Also they're a decent conductor of heat, and you want a better insulator so you don't have to wear gloves. Stick with wood, either brought or found.

BTW- I've toasted marshmellows using spokes. Nearly impossible unless you put a J-bend onto the end to catch the marshmellow when it starts to slide.
I found that if you thread a nipple on the spoke after skewering the marshmallow that it won't slide off as easily.
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Old 02-14-15, 03:53 PM
  #65  
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I will preface this by saying i have only used steel spokes. but I have an observation b ased on many wheel regarding the elasticity of the spokes. That observation is that the more elastic the spokes are, the harder the impact with potholes and the like that a conventional aluminum rim can handle without damage. My test bed is a little unscientific, but it has been rendering the same results for decades. If I am going to drop my front wheel into a winter pothole with loaded Lowriders, I better be using light DB spokes. The rim on a straight gauge 14 wheel will almost certainly be damaged whereas the same rim and tire on a 14 or 15-17 rim may come through unscathed. That the light DB spoked wheel has an excellent chance of making it through two winters in good shape and get replaced for thin sidewalls but it is less than 50-50 that the 14 gauge straight wheel will not be compromised after one winter.

With the spokes lasting for three rims and counting labor, it is cheaper for me to ride light butted spokes.

To tie into non-steel spokes: First, I deliberately talked of elasticity, not modulus of elasticity. My observation is that more elastic, ie more stretch per added load, ie stretch in mm for kilograms of added load, is good. A thinner steel spoke stretches more, or is more elastic, than a thicker one. So perhaps, more durable wheels from the perspective of rim life would be possible using non-steel spokes. But this also suggests the CF is a step in the wrong direction! (Being far less elastic than steel.) Titanium does start looking more intriguing looking at spokes this way. Half the modulus of steel. Just as strong. How bout a straight 15 guage? As elastic as a much thinner steel spoke and as strong or stronger than a steel 15. Of course, the thinned steel spoke will win aero and despite getting several more manufacturing steps (to get the butts), almost certainly still cheaper to form and is of course from much cheaper material.

Ben
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Old 02-14-15, 08:22 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by desconhecido View Post
I found that if you thread a nipple on the spoke after skewering the marshmallow that it won't slide off as easily.
Thank you... But i was asking about hotdogs not marshmallows. Please stay on topic.
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Old 02-14-15, 10:13 PM
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Originally Posted by EvilWeasel View Post
Does anyone know what type of spokes make the best skewers for cooking hotdogs over a camp fire? It's the number 1 concern for my next purchase.
The time proven material for food skewers is nature's fiber, wood. Andt
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Old 02-14-15, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Andrew R Stewart View Post
The time proven material for food skewers is nature's fiber, wood. Andt
Don't sign your name when you're so tired your fingers start missing the mark.
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Old 02-15-15, 09:49 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by desconhecido View Post
I found that if you thread a nipple on the spoke after skewering the marshmallow that it won't slide off as easily.
Doesn't mashmallow-spoke-slippage also depend on the elasticity of the marshmallow? I mean, wouldn't maybe a different brand of marshmallow with more elasticity have more gripping power after pushing it onto the spoke, and therefore not require at least 2W of energy to place the nipple onto the spoke?

Also, I'm fully against placing nipples in a fire of any sort.
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Old 02-24-15, 04:35 PM
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After years dealing with titanium fasteners you can keep it. As to the hot dogs, don't be so cotton picking cheap and use two spokes so they don't spin.
Cheers,
David in Alaska
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