Mixel

Hi everyone,

I got a question regarding an Eddy Merckx Gara (2008) original front fork with Campy Veloce skeleton brakes. There is hardly any clearance between the brake and the tire, see pictures. When the roads are a bit muddy or wet this will build up on the front brake, so it will get clogged with mud. When I open the brake it touches the tire.



I was wondering if you have any suggestions on how to create more clearance between the tire and brake? Other brakes? Other fork? I might wanna change the fork to a carbon fork in the future.

I am riding with Campy Scirocco rims.

Thanks

jimc101

You haven't said what size the tire is, key info there.

Trakhak

+1. Note that the OP asked about changing the brakes and fork but not about changing the tires. It's simple: that's the wrong bike for tires that big.

Mixel

Sorry guys, I forgot to mention that. The tires are Conti Ultra sport 700x23c. Would other tires have a difference height? I would think that there is not much difference in tire heights, maybe a couple of mm. That would still leave a couple mm of clearance.

alcjphil

The earlier non skeleton Campagnolo brakes provide better tire clearance. I notice that your brake pads are pretty much at the top of the slots. This indicates to me that your fork isn't very well designed for tire clearance. The photos do not show how much clearance there is between the tire and the fork. If there is enough clearance there, it could be that the brake mount hole is too low. However if tire clearance between the tire and fork is very tight, the fork legs are too short. A well designed fork would provide plenty of tire clearance. Clearance with 700 x 23's should be a lot better than that.

jimc101

As you have a 23mm tire, that's tight, from the photos, thinking there is something off with your setup, the RD looks to be off center.

It's a while since I switched back to Shimano brakes, but never had any issues with Campag Skeleton brakes and clearance, a quick Google image search shows this type of brake having the LH arm higher than yours, thinking that adjusting the cable position & tension could give you several mm back + better centering of the brakes.

Edit -

Not getting the issue with a badly designed fork from #alcjphil the spec of front brakes hasn't changed in may years, my oldest bike is 20 years old this year, and had run Campag non skeleton, Campag skeleton & Shimano brakes all with the same clearance, thinking still it is a setup issue rather than design. If you were running 25mm tires, could possibly go with the design as an issue, but 23mm has been standard for many years, you need to go back to the mid 90's to go smaller as standard.

alcjphil

When Campagnolo brought out the skeleton design a few years back we had many complaints from stores we sold to that they had insufficient tire clearance on the same frames that worked fine with the previous design. If you look at the pictures of the OP's bike you can see that the brake pads are at the top of their slots. Setup can't change that, the only way to give sufficient clearance would be to use a brake with a different design. A friend of mine ran into the same problem with one of his bikes. He had insufficient clearance with 25mm tires. He installed an older Campagnolo non skeleton brake from one of his other bikes and had much more tire clearance. That is one of the reasons why I use the older design brakes on all of my bikes. My own bikes would work fine with that design but some frames and forks with tight clearances do not play well with Campagnolo skeleton brakes

hueyhoolihan

i had a similar problem when i put 28mm wide tires on my bike. my solution was to intentionally NOT seat the front wheel completely into the front dropouts. i left a gap of a few millimeters. it worked, without further adjustment, for the entirety of an eight day tour.

if you do this and get a front flat, don't forget, like i did, and mount the wheel fully into the front dropouts and think, " , why is my front tire rubbing again?"

fietsbob

You bought a Race Bike, You're Limited to Sew Up tires, 19~22's , want to run larger tires? get a Cyclocross bike.

Maybe try a thinner brake pad set ? arch would move up when swinging inward around that pivot. .

alcjphil

There are lots of race bikes that have plenty of clearance for tires much bigger than 700 x 23. In fact, the current trend is for clearance for sizes up to 700 x 30. The Trek Emonda with its direct mount brakes offers this sort of clearance. My 2008 Look 595 can easily handle any 700 x 25 and most 700 x 28 tires. My 1973 Raleigh Professional had ample space for that size tire, with additional room for mudguards. Happily we are going back to bikes that are much more practical for real world conditions

fietsbob

Ok but that aint one of them . obviously from the OP's picture .. apples and oranges ..

I use a Campag single pivot n. 2000/2001 longer reach Brake set on my RB1, It will take a 25 tire , a '28' that comes out to be a 25 is what is On It.

for wider tires I Have a set of 33.3 'jack brown's' on My Pinarello Steel CX bike.

alcjphil

Exactly. Which is why I maintain that the fork on that bike is not very well designed

fietsbob

As said above the skeleton Brake is part of the Problem , the cable clamp to that front arm Pivot is too straight.

My old brake calipers do not present that Problem..

if the hole for the brake was drilled angled Upward parallel to the tire at that point, rather than square to the steering Tube

that woulld also make the clearance at the front higher ... But the Bike Industry world wide does not choose to Do that.


I doubt Mr Merckx will listen to you even if you flew there, to give him your well reasoned advise.

cranky old road 

The washers between the calipers and shoes look a lot thicker than on my record brakes. I wonder if the parts are incorrect, if they are mounted backwards so their concave side is not seating on the shoe properly, or if the Veloce design is different. On my bike the caliper arm is tangential to the tire profile, not closer on the cable side. (Mine is not a Merckx.)

fietsbob

^^ I think that is a good variation on the use thinner Brake shoes suggestion , Good Thing to try ^^

alcjphil

It all depends on where you have to position the brake pads in the slot. The farther down in the slot, the more clearance you have

cranky old road 

Just realized those brake shoe/pads are the mirage/veloce single piece bolt-into-the back sort that predate the skeleton design. Are the slots in the calipers still too narrow for more "normal" shoes?
The solid blocks on my non-skeleton mirage brakes have no washers between them and the calipers.

Looks like you could try moving that washer to the outside of the caliper to create functionally thinner shoes.

Mixel

Thanks for all the suggestions and comments guys. I will try to play with the washer and brake shoes so the arch would move up a bit. Otherwise have a look on ebay for non-skeleton front break or maybe make the move to a carbon fork.
Unfortunately I would not be able to work on this bike soon, because I stored it at my parents place. I was curious if this is a normal thing or not.

CliffordK

That is what I was thinking. Fewer spacers will raise the bar across the top of the tire.

Are those 23mm rims? Perhaps they push the calipers out more than a narrower rim would.

Drew Eckhardt 

My 1996 Litespeed with Look fork and Campagnolo dual pivots clears 27mm cyclocross tires which are bigger across the knobs than 28mm road tires.

Older bikes were even more practical.