Bicycle Mechanics Broken bottom bracket? Tacoed wheel? If you're having problems with your bicycle, or just need help fixing a flat, drop in here for the latest on bicycle mechanics & bicycle maintenance.

Wheel hop

Old 02-27-15, 06:07 AM
  #1  
apg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
apg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Manhattan, New York
Posts: 215

Bikes: '85 Pinarello track, '74 Peugeot PR-10 L, '73 Motobecane Mirage (RIP 2014), '81 Raleigh Roadster (RIP 2013), '88 Peugeot Santé Fixed (RIP 2014)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Wheel hop

ive laced and tensioned my wheel, fixed lateral and am having trouble with wheel hop. 1/3 of my wheel is short, and I'm wondering if I should loosen those spokes and retrue laterally or tighten the other 2/3rds and retrue.

Also, doesn't the truing process kill the perfect tensions I had before?

The wheel hop is what's really killing me though. Any tips or tricks?
apg is offline  
Old 02-27-15, 06:35 AM
  #2  
jyl
Senior Member
 
jyl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Portland OR
Posts: 7,516

Bikes: 61 Bianchi Specialissima 71 Peugeot G50 7? P'geot PX10 74 Raleigh GranSport 75 P'geot UO8 78? Raleigh Team Pro 82 P'geot PSV 86 P'geot PX 91 Bridgestone MB0 92 B'stone XO1 97 Rans VRex 92 Cannondale R1000 94 B'stone MB5 97 Vitus 997

Mentioned: 124 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 337 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Loosen and do it over. Wheel hop (radial true) needs to be addressed early. Before lateral true or dish. In my limited experience.
jyl is offline  
Old 02-27-15, 06:37 AM
  #3  
dabac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,947
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 813 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Different builders tend to do things a bit differently, but vertical true is more difficult to fix than lateral true.
So unless it's a brand new rim which might have a dip at the seam, or a truly seasoned rim which migh have any old shape, the odds are in favor of fixing vertical true before getting real serious about lateral true.

And yes, if your rim is (significantly) out of round from the start, then perfect true and perfect tensioned isn't gonna happen simultaneously.
The task of the wheel builder is to find the best possible balance between these two.

Whether to loosen first or adding more tension first depends on how close you are to your target tension, and how big the hop is.
Rationality would suggest that if there's "room" for more spoke tension, then merely adding would get you a round wheel with less work than slacking first.
OTOH if you're already close to target there's not much choice. either overstress with a questionable result, or detension first.
dabac is offline  
Old 02-27-15, 07:25 AM
  #4  
apg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
apg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Manhattan, New York
Posts: 215

Bikes: '85 Pinarello track, '74 Peugeot PR-10 L, '73 Motobecane Mirage (RIP 2014), '81 Raleigh Roadster (RIP 2013), '88 Peugeot Santé Fixed (RIP 2014)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This is helpful. They're new rims, TB14s from H Plus Sons. I'm within 2 mm of verticle true. Ill work on them slowly and find the vert true first. Thanks!!

Also do I measure for 2.0 butted section of spoke or 1.8 section at middle of spoke when working out tension?

i measured and adjusted for tension before I started, but by trying I'm changing that tension with every turn. Am I supposed to be measuring all through this process or is at the start and end okay?

Last edited by apg; 02-27-15 at 07:30 AM.
apg is offline  
Old 02-27-15, 07:28 AM
  #5  
Fred Smedley
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,706
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by apg View Post
Also do I measure for 2.0 butted section of spoke or 1.8 section at middle of spoke when working out tension?
1.8
Fred Smedley is offline  
Old 02-27-15, 07:57 AM
  #6  
Matariki
Not quite there yet
 
Matariki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Monkey Bottom, NC
Posts: 1,001

Bikes: A bunch of old steel bikes + an ICE trike

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Perfect tension is less important than trueness. As long as tensions are uniformly close (+- 10% or so) when you achieve trueness, you should have a good wheel. I always address radial trueness first, but just to get it close. Then I integrate tweaking it while adjusting lateral true.

BTW: Those rims are very nice. I had not heard of them before.
Matariki is offline  
Old 02-27-15, 08:09 AM
  #7  
Bill Kapaun
Senior Member
 
Bill Kapaun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Mid Willamette Valley, Orygun
Posts: 10,802

Bikes: 86 RockHopper,2008 Specialized Globe. Both upgraded to 9 speeds.

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 661 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 22 Posts
Originally Posted by apg View Post
This is helpful. They're new rims, TB14s from H Plus Sons. I'm within 2 mm of verticle true. Ill work on them slowly and find the vert true first. Thanks!!

Also do I measure for 2.0 butted section of spoke or 1.8 section at middle of spoke when working out tension?

i measured and adjusted for tension before I started, but by trying I'm changing that tension with every turn. Am I supposed to be measuring all through this process or is at the start and end okay?
Not sure how you measure and adjust tension BEFORE you start?
Hopefully you are using smaller increments than 1 turn??

IF I have a "difficult" wheel, I measure tension more frequently.

I sometimes make a "serviceable" wheel out of a couple junk wheels for my CL flippers.
Good hub from one, "usable" rim from another and spokes from hell. (I have more time than money)

For my crap wheels-
I've bought a slug of alligator clips with different colors from RS.
I'll use those those on in varying quantities to the spokes to denote high or low tension from "the average". I might have 0 to 3 clips on a spoke. (I have 4 colors, so I use one of the "odd colors" for extreme variance where say a "yellow" clip might be "worth" 3-5 "red" clips for higher than normal tension and a "green"clip being worth 3-5 "black" clips for lower than average. (I have more red & black than the others)
This gives me a visual representation of tensions similar to the PARK spreadsheet, but without the tedium of entering all the numbers into the "correct" cell.

Last edited by Bill Kapaun; 02-27-15 at 08:30 AM.
Bill Kapaun is offline  
Old 02-27-15, 09:03 AM
  #8  
cny-bikeman 
Mechanic/Tourist
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Syracuse, NY
Posts: 7,510

Bikes: 2008 Novara Randonee - love it. Previous bikes:Motobecane Mirage, 1972 Moto Grand Jubilee (my fave), Jackson Rake 16, 1983 C'dale ST500.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 477 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Back to original query - If your overall tension is fairly good then it only makes sense to loosen the low area, followed by tightening the rest, but do both by small degrees.
__________________
There's no such thing as a routine repair.

Don't tell me what "should" be - either it is, it isn't, or do something about it.

If you think I'm being blunt take it as a compliment - if I thought you were too weak to handle the truth or a strong opinion I would not bother.

Please respect others by taking the time to post clearly so we can answer quickly. All lowercase and multiple typos makes for a hard read. Thanks!
cny-bikeman is offline  
Old 02-27-15, 09:56 AM
  #9  
apg
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
apg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Manhattan, New York
Posts: 215

Bikes: '85 Pinarello track, '74 Peugeot PR-10 L, '73 Motobecane Mirage (RIP 2014), '81 Raleigh Roadster (RIP 2013), '88 Peugeot Santé Fixed (RIP 2014)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Awesome. I'm crystal clear. Thank you all very much.
apg is offline  
Old 02-27-15, 04:12 PM
  #10  
Al1943
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 9,438

Bikes: Trek 5500, Colnago C-50

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Remember that with a spoked wheel it is possible to have perfectly even spoke tension on an out-of-round wheel.
As others have said, take care of radial true during the early part of the build.
When I make small corrections they are in the range of 1/32 of a turn, maybe less.
Al1943 is offline  
Old 02-27-15, 06:12 PM
  #11  
Dfrost 
Senior Member
 
Dfrost's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 1,367

Bikes: ‘87 Marinoni SLX Sports Tourer, ‘79 Miyata 912 by Gugificazione

Mentioned: 118 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 273 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
I built my latest pair of wheels with TB14's, and they seem like the nicest rims I've used in 20 years of building my own and friends' wheels (clincher rims from Campagnolo, better Mavic, Velocity and Torelli before them) - very round and no wobbles pre-build, and no visible evidence of the weld-joint unless you look closely at the inside. These TB14's have required no touchups whatsoever and are as true after 1300 miles as the day I built them.

Radial and lateral trueness is the goal. Spoke tension to me is not the priority; it is dependent on other factors. But starting with a good rim ends up with even tension. I check tension by pinging towards the end, and compare tone to known good wheels in my herd.
Dfrost is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
OwenMeany
General Cycling Discussion
4
12-09-15 12:25 PM
Phillyfan
General Cycling Discussion
18
06-29-13 09:54 PM
JasonC
Road Cycling
19
03-09-09 11:39 PM
thebeatcatcher
Bicycle Mechanics
3
04-21-08 05:47 AM
sillygirl
Road Cycling
11
04-19-05 06:28 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.