Dent (possible depression) in brand new carbon frame
 

Hi guys,

I've just bought my first road bike, a Cannondale Synapse Carbon 6 105 2014. It is brand new and I didn't ride it even once yet. When I got home (unfortunately not at the store which is at about 3 hours from here), I decided to "clean" the frame (which was already quite neat but eh it's my first bike...) and felt a little dent on the frame. I've sent a picture of it to the store crew and they told me that I don't have to worry about it, but I still do.

Here are two pictures of the dent. Do you think I should send it to Cannondale and get it inspected/ replaced or is it something normal? I did the tap test but since it's my first I can't really assume if it was positive or not.

http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=439514
http://bikeforums.net/attachment.php...hmentid=439515

I really don't know why there's a thumbnail of the bad initial pic attached to the thread...

Where is that? The seat stay? I assume it is only on one side? The bike shop may well be right that it won't make any difference. What is the Cannondale warranty? Lifetime (to original purchaser)? So, if something happened, you could get it fixed. However, you just bought a $2000 bike. It just seems inappropriate to get a "blemished" bike unless you were informed in advanced that it was a second, and received a discount specifically for that.

How would you represent the bike to a perspective buyer if you would sell it?

Anyway, write to Cannondale and express your dissatisfaction, and see what they say.

I also think that it's probably structurally fine. I'd definitely say that it would be unacceptable in a new bike at full retail. Presumably your bike was a closeout on last year's model--but it's still a bad looking defect/damage and that should be reflected in the price in addition to being a model year older. I'm not totally sure about what advice to give you.

It sounds crazy to me to buy a bike 3 hours away, but I understand the interest in value shopping, and that many probably aren't as lucky as I am living near good shops. Its just that much of the value of buying a bike new is being to deal with the shop easily if any problems occur, etc.

Hope you get everything sorted out, I bet it's a great riding bike. I also really dig the Cannondale team color scheme--my Supersix looks kind of similar.

The OP appears to live in Montreal Quebec. There are certainly no lack of good bike shops in the city, including Cannonade dealers, I certainly hope that the bike was bought in Canada, otherwise it could be difficult having the warranty honoured. Buying outside the country means that the warranty will only be good at the point of sale while if it was bought inside Canada any local Cannonade dealer should be able to help you out.

I would not accept a defect like that on a new bike, even if it does not pose any hazard.

It is always better to VERY closely scrutinize a new bike before accepting it. It is a lot easier to reject it before you leave the store than to deal with getting it sorted out afterward. The shop has little incentive to help after you have taken delivery, except as an agent of the manufacturer and to preserve their reputation. They've already got your money.

First of all thanks for the answers, it's really appreciated.

I am indeed living close to Montreal. The problem was that I wanted a 2014 in 51cm and all of the shops - even in the whole province - didn't have any left. I didn't go to the US, I stayed in Canada and bought it in Ottawa. Of course it was at a discount price, but I expected this deal to be based on the fact that it was a closeout from last year - I'm pretty sure that's the real reason and that the store maybe didn't even know about it, maybe the worker who installed the pedals and bottle cages dropped something on it who knows.

The dent is on the top tube and it's the only one and only on one side, so at least it gets less stress from rides than the seat tube, but since it's a new frame I'd like it to not be bad at all instead of being ok for not being tested everytime I roll on a rock...

I know I should've inspected it in store, I felt quite dumb when I realized it back home. The fact is if it's only for the appearance of the bike it doesn't bother me at all, as long as it's fonctionnal (anyway the bike still looks great, I agree with cpach).

The warranty is indeed lifetime for first owner and I registered the bike on the website the day I bought it. I think it would be appropriated to contact Cannondale today even though I really hope it's nothing structural.

Thank you again.

I would communicate with Cannondale and see how they want you to handle it if you don't want to go back to the original Dealer. Year model closeout sale should not equal factory blem sale. Keep in mind however if they decide to replace the frame you may have to pay the labor for swapping parts over so be sure and ask about that.

Personally, if you buy new it should be new. I would have taken it back.

Don't fault yourself for not seeing it at first. Like I said, if it was new I would expect new. When I buy a used bike with the expectation that something might be wrong, that's when I do a very close examination.

Even though it is last year's model, it is still a new bike and should be as close to perfect as possible. Dropping something on the frame would have chipped the paint before it caused a dent like that. That is clearly a flaw in the tube. I have seen frames replaced on warranty for far smaller flaws than that. You should contact Cannondale as soon as possible and certainly before you ride it although given the current state of the streets in Montreal I don't imagine you will want to be out riding for some time

Yeah I guess you are right, I didn't think about the possibility to see a flaw on the frame... Next time I buy new if I do, I will be careful as much as if it was used material and would just not buy if it's not close to perfect.

I agree, I will write them a message similar to my OP post with the pictures. Indeed I will probably not get the bike out until maybe late april, but it is even better I can have the time to ask them and get an answer on this.

Alright I will ask about it, thanks!

In the best of worlds the factory shop would have spotted and touched it up with a spot of filler before painting, or before shipping. Or the shop would have touched it up before delivery to you. I personally believe that minor cosmetic blemishes aren't a big deal at all, and if I was otherwise happy with the purchase, I wouldn't blink about this.

But I'm not you, so it's up to you to decide how important this is to you. You said you hunted all over two province trying to find this exact bike, and got a decent price. Your options are basically limited to a few.

1- touch it up (or ignore it) and move on riding the bike you worked so long to find
2- return it, based on it being an unacceptable defect (it isn't mechanical)
3- keep it, but document it with the shop and Cannondale, so it doesn't affect your warranty rights
4- go back and try to negotiate an additional discount based on the blem. You might get a few $$$ or some other concession, but have to decide if it's worth the time.

The decision is yours, and you'll make it consistent with what you really want, and/or your attitude about cosmetic defects on new stuff.

Agree with that a sale price isn't a waving of warranty (if it were VERY few autos would be covered by a warranty:)) Most likely some bit of something got into the mold and deformed the carbon during the laying up and curing process. As there is no failure as of yet their is no warranty claim yet (I know of no warranties that cover cosmetic but well finished issues). At best the company might feel that it's bad will to have this cosmetic defect (again no actual structure failure at this time) out in front of the public. It is quite possible that Cannondale did sell it to a dealer as a blem (and then warranty and such does shift a bit from new obligations). In which case Cannondale will want to learn of how their dealer misrepresented that situation.

So I'd go to a local dealer first because it's easy and there's no issues of defensiveness (as they didn't sell the bike) and also directly contact Cannondale. Tell both of the other contacts and mention to Cannondale your desire to continue being a Cannondale supporter and wish to handle this through the local dealer. In fact I'd include your contact letters/emails and a copy of the original receipt with both as you contact the other. Open communications being your goal so there's no "he said but they said" later.

how either Cannondale or the dealer handles this will depend on how they wish to keep the OP as a Cannondale/shop customer. And if they do come through in some manor (and it might not be possible to replace the frame with the exact same model as it is out of production) then the OP has the obligation to make that known to his riding circles. Andy.

Curious to see how this plays out. Almost looks like a staple to me with the mirror effect.

With all due respect to Andrew and others, I strongly doubt that there's any intentional misrepresentation here. Manufacturers don't inspect cosmetics with a magnifying glass. This is a tiny blemish that could be easily missed, by both Cannondale and the mechanic who assembled the bike. If it were discovered by the factory, they would have touched it up rather than selling it at a discount.

So it's not about dishonesty or anyone trying to foist 2nd rate product on an unknowing consumer. I don't know the shop, but I'd expect that the mechanic simply missed it, or he too might have touched it up.

So, yes, the customer has the right to return the unridden bike, because the threshold for that right is very low, and if he's unhappy, the shop has to try to correct that or void the sale and refund then payment. OTOH- if the customer wants to keep the bike, it becomes a question of what this blemish is worth, and that's between the customer and shop.

+1 This is a manufacturing defect, not accidental damage.

My guess there was something already in the mold, accidentally dropped, before the Mold release, Gel coat spray & Carbon fabric lay up began.


Your Cannondale dealer is who you need to contact, not bypass, bring the sales invoice.

I've read some great answers here and it really makes me positive about the situation thank you all. I've sent a message to Cannondale and will hold you up with the way it gets setted out.



If you are right about the possibility of it being only a cosmetic issue, and from what I've read from you while lurking on this forum I am confident you are, well I won't mind at all about it! It isn't even visible when you look close to it without touching it and even if it was apparant from afar, I never paid too much attention to the small details like scratches and other insignificant notches as long as what I use is fully functionnal and overall good looking. It's sure the fact that it is brand new is a little bit disappointing, but errors happen on so many products even of high end, I wouldn't give Cannondale a bad name for it. Thank you very much for the clear answer.



I contacted the dealer the day after I brought the bike home. After reading your post, I specified it to Cannondale in my message, telling them I had an email conversation with the dealer that I could forward them if ever needed. If the situation gets complicated, both parties will know I've contacted both and we will clarify things out, thanks for the hint. Otherwise, you too seem to believe it can be just a cosmetic flaw, if it's the case and the structure isn't affected, I won't hold a grudge against neither the brand nor the dealer. According to the service I received, I don't think the bike shop did wrong on purpose, they seem to be great professionnals and huge bike enthusiasts (as in many other bike shops I went to!). I will probably bring the bike to a local dealer to get it checked, depending on the answer I will get from the Cannondale Support.




It does look like a staple mark in real life! I will keep you up to date with it.


It would be the greatest reason to this blemish I could hope for. It would really rule out the possibility of it affecting the structure.

If the blem is because of an object in the mold (which I postulated in #13 ) I have less concerns about structural integrity. All the design called for plies would have been layered over it. Times like this I wish I had a borescope. The one could look inside and view the other side of the blem. Andy.

The fact that you bought the bike in Canada really simplifies things as far as warranty support goes. The fact that you specifically wanted the 2014 model might mean that if Cannonade decided to replace the frame you might not be able to get the same frame as a replacement. This happened to a friend of mine whose Cannonale frame failed. She particularly liked the paint scheme of the bike she had bought, but when her frame cracked the colours had been changed. She has never liked the appearance of her replacement frame. If that is also an issue for you, it may mean that you might prefer to keep the bike you bought as long as you can be sure that the defect does not affect either that safety of your bike or the warranty. However, that would mean that the value of your bike would be somewhat diminished. I doubt that the bike shop knowingly sold you a bike with a factory defect. Unless the bike was a floor model, it was probably still in its box and was built up shortly before you took it home. It is fairly easy to miss small things like that when building a bike up, the mechanic would be more focussed on making sure all the components were working properly. The people from Cannondale would never have seen it, it was built and boxed up in whichever factory they contract to build their bikes.

Thanks for the informations,

To me though, appearance, as I said earlier, isn't the most important part of the bike I ride. On the other hand, I really like the paint scheme of the Synapse 6, but it isn't my favorite from Cannondale and I must admit that I quite like every Synapse look they made in 2014 and 2015 except for the black and yellow/ really light green synapse 5 of 2015. If changing my frame implies getting another colorway, but a perfect brand new frame and therefore a better value for my bike, and that I don't have to pay for anything (I don't wanna talk about shipping for a frame I bought new that's been sent to me flawed), well then why not? Even if it's for a cosmetic flaw... But if it means that I have to pay for anything (the flaw being still only cosmethic), well f*ck that, I will keep it like that, anyway I will probably keep it all my life. All I'm hoping for is for it to be only cosmetic issue, otherwise, if they want me to pay for the shipping of it/ of a new frame back here, I would be quite obligated to obey (I'd still negociate and make them know how mad I'd be from paying for an error they made).

As of right now, I've got an answer from Cannondale, telling me to bring it to a dealer (not sure if they talk about the dealer I bought it from or any local dealer), to get it either checked or shipped to them at the factory. So since their message was so unclear, I've sent them another one to clarify it and 5 days later I still have no answer. So I re-sent this last message and the whole conversation to the Support and I'm hoping to get something during the day on monday (tomorrow/ today).

My friend who had problems with her Cannondale dealt with Cycles Rossi in Lachine and was quite happy with the way she was treated. Of course in her case she lives less than 1 km from the store so it was convenient to get to, she could even walk there if necessary. However she was less impressed with the rep from Cannondale, said it was like pulling teeth to move him into action. Normally, in order to honour a warranty a replacement frame would be shipped to the dealer, who would swap the components over from the old frame. Then the old frame would either be destroyed or shipped back to the distributor by the shop. This all depends on the policies of the company. Cannondale would not ship a frame directly to you

Any dealer can handle warranty work. In this instance the original dealer has less of an incentive to cooperate because there may be the risk of them losing the sale.

And BTW the Cannondale warranty is tied to the continent it was purchased in, not the country.

Many Canadians have found out to their chagrin that purchases made outside the country make warranties difficult, if not impossible despite the wording of any warranty. There is a lot of cross border shopping that goes on since Montreal is less than a 1 hour drive from the US border. Local shops have very little interest and quite a bit of hostility towards people who shop across the border to save money. It also depends on the distribution structure of the companies. When there is a local distributor, they also have less interest in being helpful. Distribution arrangements are constantly being changed with bike companies switching distributors constantly in order (they hope) to increase their market share. At worst, the new distributor has to buy new stock to service their retailers, leaving the previous distributor with leftover stock they have to sell at a discount. This happened several times at the distribution company where I do some occasional work. So the fact that Cannondale's warranty states that the warranty is for the entire continent doesn't mean that it would be a great idea to buy one in the US and bring it back to Canada. The fact that the OP bought the bike inside the country removes a lot of potential problems. Local dealers will be dealing with the same distributor as the shop where the bike was bought