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Atlas Shrugged 11-03-20 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by Barry2 (Post 21772493)
It's been a full month since my last blog comments.
The "Metric Century" turned into a 37 miler due to a wrong turn.
Hey I still had fun, but I do think the course could have been better marked.
I'll try again next year and see if I can find a different spot to goof and go the wrong way.

The coaching has proven to be quite educational over the first month.
I riding more outdoors than before, making me and my mental health far happier.
I'm doing lots-o-endurance rides limited by Heart Rate and Power.
Basically establishing and documenting a base fitness level.
This is a more low tech and flexible approach than the prior electronic training plans and ERG mode rides.
Not sure what strength training will look like yet, but I see it starting to creep in a little on the plan for month two.

I'll be honest, I thought I had a reasonable base of fitness and I'm eager to begin seeing results in the strength dept.
But this is apparently a proven process and patience is required. OK, no point in paying for a coach and not doing as asked.

Fingers crossed.


A great contribution to BF, Thank You.

I have recently purchased Kickr Bike and really enjoy it. Pricey yes but you get what you pay for.

Barry2 11-03-20 01:58 PM

TL;DR but I'm glad your enjoying it.

Thanks for letting me know. It gets lonely in here at the bottom of the forums listing. 8-)


Barry2 11-03-20 04:13 PM

Just completed my 3rd Lactate Threshold (LT) Test (Bloodless).
This is the magic number where if you less work than this, the body does not suffer from a buildup of Lactate acid.
Go above this workload and you will suffer an increasing build of lactate acid. Surprise there is a Wiki on this

So am I seeing a performance increase after all this trolling on my bike subjected to some extremely achievable Heart Rate (HR) and power (W) limitations.
It's been tough to stick to the limitations imposed. After all, I'd become used to ERG training plans at power levels I just couldn't regularly complete.
Add to that, prior outdoor rides at extremely high exertion levels and surely, all this trolling around can't really be having any effect, can it?

Turns out if you mix HR, Watts, Time, and some graph paper - you get some interesting results.

09/30/2020 at 127bpm I could achieve 115W (LT Test virgin, I think I was nervous ! )
10/07/2020 at 137bpm I could achieve 130W
11/03/202 at 137bpm I could achieve 137W

So after 1 month endurance training (trolling around) I'm now able to output an additional 7W without lactate build up and at the same 137bpm. even sent me a congratulations email today on my (1W) eFTP increase, that was the last thing I expected.

So yes... I am able to see a performance increase over the last month and that's just endurance training without much in the way of strength training.

One month into coaching and building an endurance baseline and I can already see some improvement.
Very unexpected and I'm enthused to move into month two.


Barry2 11-09-20 09:25 PM

Just when you think you know whats going on!
Here is something different... A book review (of sorts)

So for most of this cluster year 2020, I've been charging around. Trying to to PB on my regular 20 mile circuit and get fitter/faster.
My weight has been creeping up during this time from 200 to 207 lb. Not a drastic change, so OK I'll live with it.

Then came Coach. Now coach stops all of this rushing about at 152+ bpm heart rate and 120-130W averages and Coach says.....
"You shall not exceed 137bpm or 150W absolute max, even climbing hills." Eh!.... OK!

So for the last 4-5 weeks I've trolling around and have a generally relaxed time. :foo:
But wondering just all of this lollygagging is doing for me.
But, I'm paying the man to tell me just what to do, and so I'm going to get my moneys worth and do it.

Now it gets weird. I've lost 5 pounds in the last 4 weeks.
And where I was creating ~80W at137bpm, now at the same 137bpm I'm closer to 100W (These are road bike numbers and lower than testing, I don't know why)

So being that i'm edumacated, I gots me an book.

Power Meter Handbook by Joe Friel. Velopress
Turns out if you train below your Lactate Threshold your body can burn fat. If you go gangbusters all over the place, not so much.
I also had no idea all the info hidden in the Power Meter data I was missing.

Although technical in spots, Joe's writing style tends to warn you first, then walk you through, and even brings a smile at times.
If you're running a power meter, this book is extremely educational and may change the way you choose to train.

For me, I don't expect to replace Coach with a book, but it's nice to know that Coach and Joe seem to be on the same page.

More power and less weight, what's not to like.


Barry2 11-12-20 09:08 AM

Yet more reasons for trolling around.
This article is really a must read.

Originally Posted by Wattsup (Post 21786416)
This guy says his athletes are getting big improvements in VO2max. It's the first time I've heard of this type of training being used for this.

In summary
Article claims VO2 max increases more with high volume lower effort training than high effort training, but it does take longer.
Hey I’m going out trolling on my bike today. 🙂

Thanks @Wattsup for finding the article.


eseob 12-08-20 12:02 AM

Hi Barry,

I am having the same clicking issue and just to be sure, could you please be so kind and post some picture where you applied the spray?
I am not sure to which "CLIMB" Joint you are referring to.

Thx a lot!

Originally Posted by Barry2 (Post 21274669)

Barry2 12-08-20 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by eseob (Post 21823177)
Hi Barry,

I am having the same clicking issue and just to be sure, could you please be so kind and post some picture where you applied the spray?
I am not sure to which "CLIMB" Joint you are referring to.

Thx a lot!

Here you go eseob,
Wooden dowel shows where lube goes (do both sides).
I have to lay the bike on it's sides to get the lube to go flow into the correct place.
DO NOT use regular WD40
Instructions were to use "WD40 Water Resistant Silicone Lubricant"
12/08/2020 and I'm still squeak free.
I'd also check for your squeak before you lube.... Get off the bike and pull the top tube left and right. Mine took less than 10 pounds of force to duplicate the squeak with me off the bike.

All the best

Where I placed the lube per Wahoo instructions. DO NOT use regular WD40... Instruction state to use "WD40 Water Resistant Silicone Lubricant"

eseob 12-09-20 11:31 PM

Hi Barry,

thx a lot for the picture!! I can reproduce the squeak when pulling the top tube.
This is actually already the second bike as it was worse on my first and now the clicking only appears when raising the power during shifting or beginning of a climb, etc.
I hope I do not have to send this bike back again so I am hoping that this will fix the issue ;)


Barry2 01-29-21 11:44 AM

Training, and what's the hold up ?

I've not forgotten about this blog, I've been a bit busy....

March 2019 - As a sedentary diabetic with a terrible A1c I was placed on Trulicity, got great numbers and started to lose weight
October 2019 - Weight loss had stopped. I needed to do something to help it along.... cycling.

April 2020 - FTP has been increasing over the last 6 months.
June 2020 - FTP has been frozen since May, I've decided to start a training plan using FulGaz and my Kickr Bike.
September 2020 - With FulGaz self-guided intervals having limited effect I have to determine what I'm doing wrong. My FTP remains frozen & ~100w low.

October 2020 - I hired a profession cycling coach.
November 2020 - Seeing increases with the coach, but still I remain low on power. Endurance is increasing.
December 2020 - Much of the same. Coaching plan increases in intensity, but I'm not really getting faster.

JANUARY 2021 - Still nothing much happening. 1st wk in January LT test is still showing the same weird results graph and I'm still not going anywhere fast.

Heart to Heart with the coach.... "What's going on? Am I just a wimp on a bike?" reply came back "you are not responding to training as expected"
Coach dug deep and found the following, WAY TO GO COACH !

Turns out that my diabetic miracle drug, Trulicity, has been apparently suppressing the glycogen in my muscles.
If you live a sedentary life and don't really use the muscles, it matters not.
But if you are training on a bike... well, that'll be quite the issue.
I got my Dr. Endo's blessing to come off the drug, I continue training for the four weeks Trulicity takes to leave my system, and......

5,4,3,2,1 Houston We have lift off. 4th wk January test shows marked increase in Lactic Threshold.
No FTP increase, that will come from further training. But my prior rides are faster and easier to the point I can feel it.

Only bad news is that Coach has wound back my training plan a couple of months.
Oh well, you can't have your cake & eat it.... oops Diabetic, no cake for me !


New on the road bike numbers.... 110-120W @ 137bpm HR :)

02/17/21 update: 120-130w @131bpm, & still getting better.

peastman 02-13-21 11:33 AM

KICKR Bike - broke Error Code 17
1 Attachment(s)
I took delivery of my Wahoo KICKR Bike yesterday - set it up, and all seemed fine.

Until this morning when I connected to Zwift and started a group ride. About 3 minutes into the ride, I lost all functionality on the KICKR Bike and received an “ER 17” on the display.

After reseting it by removing the power, the same pattern continued…I ramped up the power and then the bike stopped functioning, and received the error.

Does anyone know what Wahoo’s error codes mean?

I have a suspicion that something in the resistance system is reaching a High Temp cut out - as there is a slight smell of electrical burn. However that may just be the newness of the unit. Reaching the problem also seems to be load related - ie i only reach the problem when power output is sustained over 180W for 3-5 min.

Any help would be appreciated.

I have initiated a Ticket with Wahoo for service.


Ed Wiser 02-13-21 12:42 PM

Is the bike in a cold room or garage?
There is an issue with the power supply. If it is cold when you start to ride. As you ride it will heat up an trip a thermal over load on the power supply.

peastman 02-13-21 12:51 PM

Thanks for replying. No - the kickr bike is in my office - which is controlled at 72F.

I'll check the Power Supply - but all appears normal with it. Green light is on, and continuously lit.


Barry2 02-14-21 10:06 AM

I believe there is a cooling fan inside the rear of the bike. I can on occasion hear mine running.
My bike is indoors, located it a small bedroom.
I have never experienced a smell or error code from the bike.

The good news.... Wahoo support has been awesome!

Please do keep us informed


peastman 03-06-21 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Barry2 (Post 21923578)
I believe there is a cooling fan inside the rear of the bike. I can on occasion hear mine running.
My bike is indoors, located it a small bedroom.
I have never experienced a smell or error code from the bike.

The good news.... Wahoo support has been awesome!

Please do keep us informed


Hi Barry and all - just to close the loop on my file...after a few weeks waiting I do have a new / replacement Wahoo Bike. It's not quite as easy in Canada since I learned Wahoo only deals through a distributor. Once Wahoo assessed the problem through their Service Ticket system I was told someone in Canada would contact me within 5 biz days (and they did so late on the 5th day). In this case the Canadian Distributor is Live to Play Sports. They sent a set of boxes, I dismantled the bike (much further than how I received it), packed the bike up in the boxes, and drove it to their warehouse in Toronto, and they sent me a replacement bike. While I had the defective bike, I captured a few pics and got to the bottom of what caused the bike to stop working after a few minutes of riding after each reset. (however I'm not able to post my pics as I get a message saying I need to submit > 10 posts before I can add pictures). I'm happy to send them to anyone who's interested.
You mentioned a fan near the bottom / rear of the bike. Well in my case the fan must not have started the first time I hopped on the bike to set it up - and the heat generated during 4 minutes or riding it ended up melting part of the squirrel cage in the fan due to the heat rising up from a set of coils that the fan is designed to cool (directly below the fan). When I found the fan, the squirrel cage had melted and deformed enough to prevent it from turning freely inside the housing - so no further cooling was possible. I don't know why it failed to operate initially because it was receiving power and wanted to turn when I found it.

Hopes this helps others if they encounter the "ER17" error message on the display.

as-found deformed fan squirrel cage

coil cooling chamber and back of circuit board

48 Volt cooling fan

looking down at the coil chamber that fan mounts to and cools.

Barry2 03-06-21 04:39 PM

Glad to hear they got you squared away and for your update.
Please do come back and edit the pictures into your post once able.
I've not seen inside the thing, I'd be interested.



Ed Wiser 03-11-21 09:11 AM

Yes this is interesting. Do the road they are going to need to have dealers repair these bikes. As long term returning the whole bike back is crazy.

Barry2 03-11-21 09:33 AM

You’d be surprised at how much stuff is destroyed onsite and never returned to the manufacturer.
Costco is a prime example of this happening with larger items.

I wonder what happens to the Kickr bikes once received. I’ve never seen them sold as refurbished.


peastman 03-11-21 11:18 AM

I completely agree with you Ed. We could have simply diagnosed and replaced a $40 fan instead of spending big $$ on packing and shipping entire KICKR Bikes across North America. I asked Live to Play Sports if they performed any in-house service - they said no, all bikes go back to Wahoo.

Ed Wiser 03-11-21 01:06 PM

Originally Posted by Barry2 (Post 21962271)
I wonder what happens to the Kickr bikes once received. I’ve never seen them sold as refurbished.

They resale them

An I bet they send them back out to replace bikes with issues.

Barry2 03-11-21 05:42 PM

Originally Posted by Ed Wiser (Post 21962720)
They resale them

An I bet they send them back out to replace bikes with issues.

WOW, Wahoo don't discount the refurb's by much !


Barry2 04-23-21 01:22 PM

OK it's been a while since an update.

Coach dropped my allowable endurance HR to only 129bpm.
I completed about 30 rides (mix of indoor and out).

As a result I can hold 110W and my HR settles to ~126bpm and then just sits there!
Then comes my 1st Moderna shot and power drops by ~20% for at least two weeks.
Power returns to normal, time to sneak in a quick Lactic Threshold (LT) test before my 2nd Moderna shot.

AT LAST... I have a totally normal LT test graph. ALL prior graphs were a perfect straight line. This one curves in all the correct places. Just like... well that's enough of that!
Once again, with new endurance HR in hand. I can now hold 130W and 138bpm and my HR just sits there. I can fun with this, so I joined a local cycling Club.

NO FUN FOR ME - 2nd Moderna shot, again power is down ~20% or more and fatigue sets in really fast when riding.
Oh well, I can wait another couple weeks to begin power training.

This year is beginning to look up. :)


Barry2 06-09-21 10:48 AM

OK, so I'm free and clear of the Moderna shots.
Power returned to normal reasonably quickly. Resting HR remained high and took a while longer to drop.

My Coach noticed I was having too much fun playing with HR & decent watts, so he increased my cadence from 80rpm to 90rpm. This immediately popped up my HR for a given power.
Reasoning behind the change... low cadence uses different muscle fibers than high cadence. These low cadence fibers tire more quickly than the high cadence variety.
Well I can work with that....

Changed my Rear Derailleur from RD-R8050-SS to the long cage GS version.
This allowed me to swap to 11-34 on the cassette.
I like that!! But more is better.

I knowingly EXCEEDED the Shimano blessed spec's for the RD-R8050-GS and went with a SRAM PG-1170 11-36 cassette.
This does take some care, have a professional advise you and test it.
Getting installation wrong can result in a destroyed Rear Derailleur & wheel.
So I DO NOT recommend this configuration.

I expected to be able to climb hills slower with this configuration.
But that's not what happened. The higher RPM has allowed me to climb faster and tire less doing it...... Who'd-a-thunkit !
How do people learn this stuff without a Coach.

My training plan still keeps me mostly at <138bpm but does allow me to go as fast as I'd like one day per week. Except for the day I tried that at 98F and blew a gasget. I had to call for the SAG wagon (Wife).

I've signed up for two local Metric Centuries and I'm looking forward to further increasing power over 2021.


Barry2 07-14-21 05:26 PM

Here is a nice by-the-way Wahoo Headwind
Wahoo Headwind - Ever forget to turn it ON - - FIXED
Don't know which one, but a firmware update has allowed me to pair the Headwind with a Wahoo Bolt.
Now when cycling "Indoor" (not "Outdoor" setting) the Headwind appears as it's own Bolt Page and I can control it's mode and speed from the Bolt..... Including turning it ON !

Nice, thanks Wahoo


Barry2 09-07-21 05:13 PM

Wahoo Kickr Bike dual sided Power Meter
OK so I wanted dual sided power on the Wahoo Kickr Bike.
I've got dual on my road bike and want it indoors as well.

So I added a pair of Garmin Rally RS200 (SPD-SL) power meter pedals.

Here is where the fun begins.
I have the Kickr bike paired to a Wahoo Roam for control of the bike.
I paired the PM pedals as well. If I don't power up the bike, the Roam reads the PM pedals just fine and gives me L/R balance (that proves dual PM is working).
As soon as the bike powers up, L/R Balance goes blank and the Roam takes its power reading from just the bike, totally ignoring the more capable dual PM in the pedals.
Wahoo support states this configuration will not work.

Well I found the fix.
It's called a Garmin Edge 830. The Garmin 830 when paired to both the bike and the pedals retains control of the Kickr bike, while still reading L/R balance from the pedals.

It is an expensive fix. Personally I think the Wahoo Kickr bike should have come with dual power, or at least a method of self upgrade. 8-(

Wahoo won't support the Cycliq camera.
Wahoo won't support Garmin Cycling dynamics.
And now this. Wahoo is becoming a bit of a Walled Garden.
I'm off to the dark side.
My Roam is going to Craigslist.
Edge 830 has become my new Head Unit.


Ed Wiser 09-07-21 06:00 PM

The problem would mean a whole different type of controller. With ability for you to turn off the power meter built into the controller. If power petals are used.

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