i was watching a show today and the were talking about 4130 chromaly and they said that it before it was heat treated it was softer and easier to work with and then you would like bake it in a special oven and heat it up and it would be stronger than it was. i was wondering if the did this with bike frames? like S&M. Thanks

yes.

Yep, and that's what makes 4130 such a ***** to weld! The heat effected zone around the weld gets very hard and brittle and must be normalized before you can ride it. Isn't that why the vast majority of steel frames are brazed (lower temps)?

The vast majority of steel frames are not brazed, so no.

r u talkin about chromally frames

Many heat-treated air hardened chrome-moly steels actually get stronger as they're welded (Reynolds 851, True Temper OX Platinum, to name a couple), further nullifying arguments for brazed joints in this day and age.

Ding Ding Ding, hypersnazz got it.

so does that mean that 4130 also get stronger when it is welded? Thanks

4130 loses some strength when welded, but it doesn't get brittle, it gets softer. And you can't heat treat a frame post-welding because it will distort.
Don't bother with fancy air hardening tubes, they just trade off elongation for UTS, which is fair enough for MTBs and the rest, not so for BMX.

so when your done welding 4130 you have to heat treat it to normalize correct? Thanks

who cares its strong and light you've got a bike now go ride it

Heat treatment and normalizing are 2 different things. Basically when you weld a frame you leave it, smaller parts, including forks and bars these days can be heat treated.

http://www.moldmakingtechnology.com/...es/110002.html

dooley. thanks. i knew they heat treated smaller parts so i assumed they did it on frames to.

on my pbr is that the chromally the same gauge? Thanks

I ran into this site and just had to answer someone..

Please pass this around to all your associates

I started riding serious bikes in the 1960's (Gitane) and still have a Raliegh Team bike - Reynolds 531 frame.
I have been in the Metals Industry running an Aerospace Division for 27 years working with the largest
manufacturers in the US.

First -

Heat Treating is a genaric phrase and never used by a professional in the metals industry.

Heat treating covers "ALL" thermal processes

You : Anneal * Stress Relieve * Normalize * Normalize & Temper * Quench & Temper *

These are all "Heat Treat " processes with different results for different applications.

Airframe tube *AISI 4130 * EF 4130 * 4130 Alloy steel - whatever you want to call it ..is the bottom end
of the Aircraft alloys.

4100 designates a Chrome-Moly basic alloy structure
4130 designates a Cr-Mo with 30 points of Carbon (actually .27-.32 point range)

No alloy with less than 40 points of carbon (4140) is considered to be a "Thru-Hardening" grade..

30 points is in limbo....the middle ground

Less than 30 points requires Carborizing (having the surface impregnated with additional carbon by imersion while heating and case-hardening) to improve the Surface hardness..but you only get a hard surface and no depth....

Welding weakens the joint..the intergranular structure changes from the heat and impurities in the flux!

My Raliegh 531 frame like my old Gitane's are "LUGGED"..
All the best are lugged..may not be as pretty..but are the best..and the strongest.

If you Normalize after welding (which is recomended)..it is to make it all uniform strength (Normal)
But if you Normalize & Temper..or Quench & Temper (that is drawing down quickly after heating by imersion into an Oil or Salt Water bath)...How do you plan on straightening the frame after..

It could come out looking like a pretzel..

It's good to know all of this, but this thread is a bit old...

Then at least 1 person will have the correct info for the future..and that's you

Raleigh.

Nah it's not that old. Only over a year. :D

Google works wonders.

I like bicycles!

Mines welded!

Oh yeah?!? MY bike has a chain!

Oh my god... that is pathetic my post got deleted. Grow up we aren't 10 years old.

blimey, this is old. by the by - sunday heat treat their entire frames post welding.