Steel, once plasticised, never again returns to its original strength. You bend steel parts, bend 'em back, they WILL bend again. This isn't any better or more acceptible to me than having it shatter or crack...jacked is jacked.

The trouble is that carbon has a bad reputation that hangs around despite many of its key shortcomings having been solved years ago. The stuff performs *very* well in a wider variety of applications than ever before, in many cases *much* better than its steel or aluminum counterparts. And composite technology continues to evolve *much* faster than metallurgy...if it can't be done with plastic today, wait a few years, or sometimes just months.

CF's shock absorption properties depend largely on the composite matrix. The weave itself has only tensile strength (and oh boy does it have tensile strength...much better than steel or aluminum); most of what rounds out the finished product's other qualities depend on both layup and the plastics used to make it something other than limp cloth.

Carbon isn't perfect. But it certainly *deserves* a better reputation than it has. Can it be used to make BMX products that outperform the current crop in terms of strength, reliability AND weight? Absolutely. Does it need to? Probably not. Would I put money down for it? Again, probably not, but not because carbon *can't* do the job.

Snazzy loves carbon, neener neener neener. :)

Personally, I like the carbon-wrapped tubing. But the fact remains that too many people that I know personally have had problems with CF. In time, these problems may be resolved, but it still won't be the preferred material for my applications.

Actually, I'll gladly argue for steel, aluminum, magnesium, titanium, monocrystalline silicon, whatever you want as soon as idiotic uneducated opinions about THOSE materials start running rampant...I only side with carbon so regularly because of all the voodoo and myth people automatically spout whenever the topic comes up.

You can't resist those headset spacers either.

http://search.ebay.com//search/searc...spacers+carbon

http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/pict/72044848108080_0.jpg

http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/pict/72045618288080_0.jpg

http://thumbs.ebaystatic.com/pict/72038622568080_0.jpg

Gotta love.....
http://pics.ebaystatic.com/aw/pics/n...eBayLogoTM.gif

Google Images is a far more useful tool:

http://www.balfa.co.uk/bombshell/images/f1_large.jpg

i would never trust those forks.

carbon fiber has been getting better in leaps and bounds, lighter, stronger, and more durable. but it still cannot take the abuse like steel can. drop a regular bmx bike on the coping of a ramp a couple times it will be fine. do the same to a carbon frame and it will damage the frame. and like i said before damaged carbon is useless, just like bent steel. but it is harder to bend steel that damage carbon.

you seem like a very knowledgeable person, most likely alot more than me. but i am pretty sure on this subject.

I've got a great idea. A magnetic frame.

Carbon + impact from something sharp/hard (crash in corner)= expensive garbage

Great, then please continue racing on forks half as strong and 4 times as heavy. You have no useful or new information to add, so no one cares about your opinion. The track remains the most promising application for carbon components, since the types of stresses placed on the materials are the types of stresses where fiber reinforced plastics shine. And short of hitting another bike (and hitting it with fairly hard), forks and especially frames take surprisingly little impact, at least the sort that's known to fracture carbon.

Of course, assuming the carbon you use is the same delicate lightweight stuff that's currently on the market for road racing. The magic of plastics is versatility and the ability to dictate the physical characteristics of your finished product. The fact is, there's not much market driving the bicycle industry to create carbon fiber products that could withstand the types of stresses you describe. Can it handle it? We don't know, 'cause one, the technology evolves and two, there's really no demand for anything to replace steel in the BMX world.

So basically you're saying, "I don't care if you know more than me, I'm still right." Just don't run for political office and that's fine by me. ;)

My road bike does NOT have carbon forks, I feel safer. A nice ding from a passing car throwing a rock against them would make me nervous. It does however have a carbon seat post.

Core sample.

Well, that's all that is. A feeling. In your mind. Carbon forks have been on road bikes for years and perform just as well, if not better than their steel and aluminum counterparts, so much so that they're almost ubiquitous now. It's very *difficult* to find a road bike, even road bikes under $1000, with a steel fork, and aluminum forks are all but extinct. Sure, we see carbon forks explode. But we see steel and aluminum bend and snap with equally disastrous results...why are people so much more afraid when it's carbon failing than steel or aluminum? My uncle had a steel fork go on him in a crash and the result was two pretty traumatic puncture wounds in his throat from what was left of the legs (and don't ask me how he crashed, but I've seen the hideous scars).

of course? isnt that what we are argueing about?

that is not what i said. i said you seem like an intelligent person, but i am sure i am right on this topic. smart people cannot also be wrong?

Of course smart people can be wrong. But I've identified several myths about carbon and taken the time to read up on the subject because it's interesting to me. All anyone here can do in response is repeat what their friends told them or they heard from god knows where and finish by saying, "Well I just don't trust the stuff and I never will."

That's irritating to me. Right or not, that's just dumb.

[edited by moderator]

Mate, it shouldn't be a big deal, but there is a member that takes objection to the word you used, and I have to agree with him. No harm, no foul.

Cheers,

Expatriate

*blinks* Um, no you don't have to agree. Are you now going to go through and edit the 47 other threads where that word appears at least once on the BMX board alone?

What word? Woggery?

No.

I didn't do it.

i think we should end this at "it has never been tried so we dont know"

All any of us currently know, is what we've been told, or read. But more liekly, told. Now, because of you, we know more, but that's still all we know. And maybe that's all there is to know. But I had heard of carbon being great, but having a weakness to small damage.

Thank you for your time to bring us up to speed. I suspect that cost is what keeps carbon our of racing BMX. But since light and strong is king on the track, I would think that a mass produced (so that it's cheaper to make) would sell very well to racers. Guy that beat their bikes in the park would probably kill a carbon frame. But weight doesn't seem to be a facotr to park guys since I see questions like, "What's the stongest wheel, weight doesn't matter" Id' still like to know why Alum isn't good for freestyle riders.

I know FMF makes a carbon tt race bike. But I'll stick with chromo.

You haven't read the whole thread, have you?

He doesn't know how to read.