Need help identifying 1970's Italian road frameset
12-19-17, 05:39 PM
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Need help identifying 1970's Italian road frameset
Ok, so it's obviously not a Cinelli as the aftermarket decals would try and suggest. So, what the heck is it? It has an Italian thread b.b. shell, Campagnolo dropouts, chrome fork crown, and overall looks like a decent road frameset.
Thank you in advance for your knowledge and wisdom.
Coot
Buzz Bomb Bicycles
Thank you in advance for your knowledge and wisdom.
Coot
Buzz Bomb Bicycles
Last edited by Homebrew01; 12-19-17 at 07:00 PM.
12-31-17, 04:28 PM
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No thoughts at all?
I thought someone would know what it is for sure. Anyone? Anyone.?.?
12-31-17, 05:16 PM
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It's pretty typical of Italian boutique builders; nothing specific stands out. Nice frame with some spiffy workmanship. Love the color, too.
DD
DD
12-31-17, 05:47 PM
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Hello Coot,
Thank you for sharing your mystery.
"Usually" when a mystery frameset gets identified it is because of either a single distinctive feature, or because of a combination of features.
In this case we have neither. It certainly appears a workmanlike production piece rather than an artisan/custom build. Its lugset and crown are BOCAMA. Lug pattern is something called "Competition 76." Cutout design is termed R1. The combination of braze-ons is slightly odd in that it is late enough for water bottle yet does not have top tube guides nor shift lever bosses. For a dating window I would think it pretty much has to be in the 1975-77 time. The long dropouts on what is obviously intended to be a road application limit it in the forward direction timewise. The paint finish looks to be original but we do not necessarily know that the tubing transfers are. Have you checked the steerer for any tubing marking?
Is the numeral "9" (6?) on the bottom bracket shell the only marking you can see in the frame's metal?
Perhaps member @MauriceMoss will be able to contribute an idea here. He seems most outstanding with these ID's of road sets from Italy...
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Hello Coot,
Thank you for sharing your mystery.
"Usually" when a mystery frameset gets identified it is because of either a single distinctive feature, or because of a combination of features.
In this case we have neither. It certainly appears a workmanlike production piece rather than an artisan/custom build. Its lugset and crown are BOCAMA. Lug pattern is something called "Competition 76." Cutout design is termed R1. The combination of braze-ons is slightly odd in that it is late enough for water bottle yet does not have top tube guides nor shift lever bosses. For a dating window I would think it pretty much has to be in the 1975-77 time. The long dropouts on what is obviously intended to be a road application limit it in the forward direction timewise. The paint finish looks to be original but we do not necessarily know that the tubing transfers are. Have you checked the steerer for any tubing marking?
Is the numeral "9" (6?) on the bottom bracket shell the only marking you can see in the frame's metal?
Perhaps member @MauriceMoss will be able to contribute an idea here. He seems most outstanding with these ID's of road sets from Italy...
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01-03-18, 01:38 AM
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@juvela - you're most kind and your confidence in me is very flattering. However, I'm afraid I'll have to (mostly) disappoint this time.
The OP's frame is generic enough to make attribution pretty difficult. The only characteristic that is somewhat distinctive would be the hole pattern on the bottom bracket shell.
I've only seen that on two frames but I'm afraid neither's been identified conclusively.
One was a frame over on the labicidepoca.forumfree.it forum:
bianchi corsa anno 55
Aside from the pantographed stem (Marchini), there wasn't a whole lot to go on there and it was never identified.
The other was a bike posted on fixedforums.it:
INFO Telaio, marca, telaista - Discussioni generali - FIXEDFORUM.it
This one at least looked like it was possibly still wearing the original paint job and decals. The decauls were those of Vedovati (a shop that still exists in Albino near Bergamo).
I have a sneaky suspicion that the two frames above came out of the same workshop.
I don't know much about Vedovati bikes to say how many frames were built in-house, but I do know that I've seen multiple frames wearing their decals (that looked pretty original) on bikes from Fiorelli to Stelbel:
1978-stelbel-vedovati-record-frame_1_f9a6d23e8d20d45b9b22a70357148a653.jpg
vedovati1.png
vedovati2.png
Also:
https://recikli.com/2015/09/08/vedovati-special/
I know that all this is inconclusive, but it may possibly point to a builder in or around Bergamo. But then, maybe there were many builders using the same bottom bracket hole pattern, who knows.
The OP's frame is generic enough to make attribution pretty difficult. The only characteristic that is somewhat distinctive would be the hole pattern on the bottom bracket shell.
I've only seen that on two frames but I'm afraid neither's been identified conclusively.
One was a frame over on the labicidepoca.forumfree.it forum:
bianchi corsa anno 55
Aside from the pantographed stem (Marchini), there wasn't a whole lot to go on there and it was never identified.
The other was a bike posted on fixedforums.it:
INFO Telaio, marca, telaista - Discussioni generali - FIXEDFORUM.it
This one at least looked like it was possibly still wearing the original paint job and decals. The decauls were those of Vedovati (a shop that still exists in Albino near Bergamo).
I have a sneaky suspicion that the two frames above came out of the same workshop.
I don't know much about Vedovati bikes to say how many frames were built in-house, but I do know that I've seen multiple frames wearing their decals (that looked pretty original) on bikes from Fiorelli to Stelbel:
1978-stelbel-vedovati-record-frame_1_f9a6d23e8d20d45b9b22a70357148a653.jpg
vedovati1.png
vedovati2.png
Also:
https://recikli.com/2015/09/08/vedovati-special/
I know that all this is inconclusive, but it may possibly point to a builder in or around Bergamo. But then, maybe there were many builders using the same bottom bracket hole pattern, who knows.
01-03-18, 10:28 AM
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@juvela - you're most kind and your confidence in me is very flattering. However, I'm afraid I'll have to (mostly) disappoint this time.
HA!
This is a fabulous post Maurice.
Thank you so much for sharing all of this great research.
Lots of digging on your part.
"Folks I dont' know how he does it."
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Small note on tubing -
Suspect the three Reynolds transfers to be original and accurate.
See the dimples on the medial side of the chainstays. Note how the floor of the dimple is rounded. This is the way Reynolds does it. On Falck and A.L. Colombo chainstays at this era the dimples have a sharp knife edge crease in their floors.
More commonly on Italian production frames with Reynolds tubing only the three main are Reynolds with the taper tubes being supplied by Falck or A.L. Colombo. Reportedly this is done due to the relative complexity of ordering taper tubes, the difference between metric and fractional measurement.
So frame is probably eleven tube 531 just as the transfers indicate.
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