bicycletricycle

i am really excited about my new Masi. I dont know the best way to post pictures for people to view here (link to twitter?) but ill try to get some up. the frame has MC 63 stamped on the BB shell and it has a twin plate crown, were these frames measured c to c ? It has a 58.5 top tube. All nuovo record componentry, cinelli stem and bars, i was told by the original owner that all of the parts were original but that seems to be a common claim among original owners. It certainly looks all original, i dont know if there was a catalog i can reference to check that out. Anyways, i paid one thousand dollars for it and i have it all broken down now and want to know if i should paint it or not. The paint is silver with yellow lug and crown highlights and it is a little shaby. It has scratches and some areas are worn off (according to the owner this spent 20 years in the garage) . the frame itself does not have chrome chainstays but the fork appears to be all chrome under the paint and in good condition. the frame also has no braze ons except for water bottle bosses on the downtube. All of the componentry is in good condition, all of the bearing races are pristine. I am wondering what the value of this bike might be but i am more interested in peoples opinions on repainting it or not. If i do repaint it i dont know if i would like the same color, the silver is a bit to plain for my taste. any thoughts on the merits of painting it or not and should I keep the original color or not and maybe who to get it done by would be greatly appreciated.

repechage

A year ago I would have said you got a screaming deal. But if check ebay prices very recently, like the turquoise 61cm or so that just went for $900, with the paint in good shape, maybe not. Really depends if you fit it. The big bikes don't come up that often but the big guys are stingy. All that written, the twin plate crown bikes are more desirable. There will be a frame number in addition to the size. A quick look at the Masi registry only shows two 63cm bikes, that does not mean too much, but good chance they only did one or two runs of 25 in that size.

A good repaint will set you back, $500 at least with a full transfer set, original paint will be more valuable for resale in all but the poorest condition.
If it fits, keep it. If not, look for a better fitting mount in a color you want more. Either a frame or complete bike.

Original equipment was Full Campagnolo, Martano rims, stainless spokes, small flange hubs, Cinelli #2 saddle, Clement seta tires, Masi foil stamped Silica pump, Masi waterbottle. Last Masi Gran Criterium waterbottle (NOS) I saw sell on ebay was for almost $200. Everest chain and freewheel, 5 speed in back.

Masi measures to the tip of the seat lug from the center of the bottom bracket.

Road Fan

Paint is a hard question. Repainting it with no relation to the original paint job is probably worse than a very poor paint job. Paint repair is the hardest thing of all to do or have done, where all the little blips are repaired invisibly, with matching to the surrounding faded color, et cetera. If you go ahead with a paint restoration to a new finish, photograph all your decals and details as well as you can, so you can direct the painter to apply the new decals the same way the old decals were. Some of the placements are a matter of continuing debate. In some cases design of the decal is important, too. You'll be best off with a restoration, but it can be costly. I believe the $500, but I've seen higher prices as well.

Regarding original owners' claims, who else would know? There are some catalogs on-line and they sometimes contain build specs, but these were about the most expensive 10-speeds on teh market, and could be bought as bare frames. A lot of customization was possible, and I'd be very surprised if it didn't occur. If the degree of wear is about the same for all the NR parts, they are probably of the same age. If that degree of wear is shared by the frame, maybe they are all of a vintage.

Among the very best painters and with extensive knowledge of Masi, first hand, are Joe Bell and Brian Bayless. Bayless was hired by Faliero Masi to work at Carlsbad. Another excellent source, not of paint but of knowledge, is Bob Hovey. Google his name to find his websites, you'll be able to get in touch with him.

BTW, the Clement Seta are tubulars. Both the tires and teh Martano rims are costly components to replace, and could involve an extensive search. The bike would be significantly less desirable without either of them, but consider protecting them from damage, perhaps by scoring another set of vintage wheels with less rare (like Mavic) tubular rims, and a pair of Vittoria Rallye or similar tires to ride on. It may take some hunting to find a decent set with a 120 mm spacing in the rear. I would not space this frame by hand, only a good cold-setting job. Won't hurt the frame, but its affect on value is unknown, to me at least.

dudeona3V

Hi, congrats and welcome to bikeforums. If you have or can open a flickr or photobucket account (picasa links tend to disappear), you can use the Insert Image icon in the message window toolbar (yellow square with mountains) and paste in the image location (address) of your hosted image. Or simply type [IMG](the image address)[/IMG]. Otherwise, yes you can post a twitpic link and we can click on it.

Without actually seeing the condition of the paint you're describing, it's difficult to give an accurate assessment. In general I like to leave paint as is to preserve and show off its past. To me that's more interesting than a glossy new coat. Besides, with fresh paint, you're probably less likely to ride it and that's what these Gran Crits were really meant for. Ok, silver isn't the most exciting color, but it provides a great neutral canvas to do some more catchy things with (bar tape, guides, tires and saddle if you choose to swap them out). Also if you post the serial number (probably stamped around the MC63), we can try and date it.

repechage

Joe or Brian would be excellent painters.

But its Brian Baylis.

Mr. Hovey at

https://bhovey.com/Masi/index.html

Is an excellent place to bookmark.

Picchio Special

Keep the paint.
Nice score.
Many of the Carlsbad bikes had components dating from 1973 - they continued to be used to build up the Carlsbad bikes for years. So you may want to check the date codes on the rear derailleur and crankset - they may provide a hint as to originalty.

repechage

If its Carlsbad and Nuovo Record, it will be 1973, if it shipped complete.

While Masi's were available as frame sets, you did not get the Masi touches, waterbottle, pump, toe strap terminations, detail assembly that was part of the deal. The pricing of a frame set compared to a whole bike, was not that competitive unless you REALLY wanted something different. Most shops did retape the bars as part of the final fitting and to dump the Hunt-Wilde end caps, so many left the shop modified slightly, but slightly. "We will switch those Seta tires for Cotton, for no cost, here we will give you a spare too"

Smart shops would special order things from time to time, more braze ons, sizing, component swaps, spoke count, but some requests just did not make into the build, subject to parts on hand. When the 3ttt engraved stems were gone, they were gone.

Dr.Deltron

How about THIS color?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/owhn/3596750656/

repechage

You can add Dr. D to the list. The frame he shows has the original style set lug.

My only negative comment on the paint, (and the color looks good, hard to do for that Orange-Red) is its too glossy for me. And back when that frame was made, the transfers were not buried in clear, now the type of transfer might limit what can be done in that regard, some NEED the clear, and all benefit from some.

The gloss I know is subjective, but I have some originals, and they are shiny but not glossy, tweaking clear is possible, but a bit dangerous, no real post painting modifications if there is even a minor glitch.

Also, that a painter can do clear well, is hard to withhold. Kind of- can you be sloppy on purpose?

Road Fan

oh yeah!

bicycletricycle

i have posted some photos of some frame details on flickr

https://www.flickr.com/photos/24583601@N08/

the bottom bracket shell reads MC 62 (oops) and 06 74
i thought that the 06 74 might have something to do with the dimensions of the bottom bracket lug but is that the serial number. Also the paint is pretty bad, i can see that some corrosion is spreading under the paint in areas and it may be best just to get it done to protect the frame.
thanks for all of the help so far.

miamijim

Based on these pictures I wouldnt consider touching the paint. Take whatever steps are needed to properly preserve whats there but thats all you should do to it.

bicycletricycle

according to the earlier post about original parts it does look like most of it is here, cinelli saddle , martano rims etc. no bottle cage or bottle and no toe clips or straps. Also it has a everest freewheel and a 42 and 49 tooth chainring set. I think i am going to just build another wheelset to ride. If i rebuild the original wheels should i reuse the old spokes? does anyone care if the spokes are original? Maybe ill just leave the old wheels alone? The stickers on the rims are pretty shabby, can i get reproductions?

repechage

Pretty late Carlsbad, like from later 1976, post Mario. Investment cats lugs and crown.

If it fits, use it, paint is on the border. But a repaint that would maintain its value will as said before, not be cheap. And it probably would not increase its value. So the bike becomes expensive then.

I think it all comes down to fit, if its the size you would buy new, do it- as 63cm bikes are few and far between. If its big, leave it and locate a better example in your size.

repechage

Martano reprint stickers (they were transfers originally) are around, look up Martano on ebay. But I would leave them, no matter the condition. Spokes are probably fine, most likely the nipples are ugly. If you repaint it, then rebuild as the wheels will seem out of place, if you just stabilize the condition, then don't, the bike will look more in harmony.

bicycletricycle

one of the reasons i got the bike is that it is a perfect fit and i do plan on riding it. I contacted Brian Baylis and he told me about the later year of manufacture, i was under the impression that it was older because of the fork crown and Brian confirmed that it is rare to have the twin plate crown on a frame this late. I think that i will just ride it as is and just keep an eye on the problem spots in the finish. If i super love it than maybe ill get it repainted.

lotek 

Masi Cognisenti
Is that an actual twin plate crown, or just a slotted Fisher cast crown?

grazie

Marty

edit: Nice bike either way. I'm thinking I need to find a Masi for myself.

bicycletricycle

it may be the slotted crown you speak of, i dont know enough to know the differences. this crown looks to be cast in the shape of a twin plate but it definetely was not fabricated from individual plate as the name twin plate would indicate.

repechage

When the original poster said Twin Plate crown I was wary, BUT as the "Big Frames" were rare anyway, I figured it was possible that an early twin plate fork could get mated with a later frame.

The images of the original poster's silver GC are of a frame with the investment cast lugs and investment cast crown, which looks like the Fischer, just has a "saw cut" on the front and back, Mario modified some Fischer crowns earlier and used a similar look on his own frames. It also made its way into the Masi casting. I like it, but it is less "desired" than the twin plate, which was indeed two separate pieces brazed together to create a crown.

I think the decision to clean it up, stabilize the rust or raw areas, and ride it is a good one, as it will get ridden. Perfect repaints often don't, too much gets invested in time, agony and money.

For guidance on how to detail the bike:

https://www.velostuf.com/Masi%20GC.htm

Not everything is shown well but If I remember correctly features as to how cable ends were finished and pedal straps, this is about as good as it gets.