agchopz

I currently have a centurion Lemans rs with tange #2 frame and mangaloy fork. I'm thinking up grabbing a miyata 710 with triple butted cr-mo frame and fork. Speaking solely about the frame and fork is the 710 an upgrade? The frames both fit me well.

daf1009

Imho...yes

Fred Smedley

Negotiable, Tange 2 is nothing to sneer at, geometry preferences, your weight , the fit , to your body type will make more difference IMO. Sometimes less is more in the grand scheme of things bike related.

TugaDude

Agree. Tange 2 is great tubing and not a lot heavier than Tange 1. Check out various threads discussing this. The Centurion essay by Ashley Wright on Sheldon Brown's website is awesome.

And remember, triple butted isn't necessarily better than double. It all depends upon the wall thickness of the various sections. This is also well documented in various threads.

Having said that, I have a Miyata with the splined trip-butted frameset and it rocks!

oddjob2

Heads you win. Tails you win. I think the difference will be marginal and very hard to discern unless the geometry of the frames is dramatically different.

bikemig 

I think Oddjob is largely right. That said, I think Miyata is probably the best Japanese bike manufacturer and I really like how their bikes ride.

randyjawa 

Miyata by a long shot! I admit that I have little experience with the Centurion but tons with Miyata. Also, I have compared hundreds of bicycles to one another in a variety of areas. Miyata frames are really well made.

zazenzach

I think 3Rensho, Zunow, and Lotus (among others) would like to have a word with you.

I put Miyata more in the Bridgestone, Centurion, Univega and Panasonic category. Good but not the best.

bikemig 

I was thinking about mass manufacturers; 2 of the 3 you mentioned were not so not really comparing apples to apples. Lotus was a marketing brand.

3alarmer 

...the bike you mention that you have, a Centurion Lemans rs, was not very high up in the lineup for the Centurion guys, who contracted with various makers.

The Miyata 710, by the time it was redesigned with a triple butted frameset, was a better bike in just about every way I can think of.

88prelude

I'd favor the Miyata but in all honesty there's probably not too much difference between the frames. What year are the frames btw?

agchopz

The Lemans rs and Lemans 12 were not the same bike. I believe the miyata is an 86 and the rs is an 85

zazenzach

ah, ok

still, miyata doesnt stand out all that much. in my mind no miyata has quite achieved the legendary status of say an RB-1, the cult following of an Ironman, or the near mythical position of the Fuji Design Series.

in fact, i dont think any other japanese brand is more iconic than Fuji's: the Opus series, the Professional, the Finest....all very well regarded and relatively well sought after bikes.

bikemig 

I have both a Bridgestone RB-1 and a team miyata. Both are excellent bikes. I like the team miyata better. The team is a bit better made in that it has all investment cast lugs, fork crown, and bottom bracket. Miyata also made its own very excellent tubing set. The team miyata was the best racing bike I have ridden.

The Miyata 1000 is an iconic touring bike. I worked in a shop that sold both of those bikes and liked them both a lot.

That said I love my (3) bridestones. I think they're pretty close in quality but I'd give the nod to the Miyata. YMMV.

seypat

I have an 87 Ironman and an 85 Miyata 912. Same size, and mirror images as for geometries. The frame/forks weigh within 3oz. of each other. Guess what, they ride the same. Put on a blindfold and you could not tell which one you were on. I also have a Team Miyata. It is smaller with way different geometry. It is my wife's ride. I only rode it on the shakedown ride. As I remember it was stiff as an I Beam. A real boneshaker! It could have been the seat that was on it. However, when you drop the hammer it would leap forward!