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Help with old Raleigh identification

Old 07-28-15, 02:00 AM
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Help with old Raleigh identification

Hey everyone,
I just got an old Raleigh, and since it got (supposedly) repainted and stripped of all the decals, for the life of me I could not find out the model or production year after two days of (inconstant) research.

The previous owner told me it should be ~35 years old, I'm currently in the Netherlands so maybe Gazelle may have come into play.
I looked for the serial number in the usual place where it should be according to the production years, to no avail (probably painted over).

Here are some specs:

framesize: 54cm
brakes: weinmann
derailleurs: suntour vx
handlebar: raleigh sakae road champion
front wheel: rigida
back wheel: mavic

probably neither of the two is original tho.
It's a 10 speed with small gears, the lower 2/5 of the front fork are chromed and the rear brake cable runs on top of the frame through two small metal rings soldered to the frame.
The front badge says Nottingham.

I'm attaching pics of some details that I hope can help you.

Although not in perfect aesthetic conditions, it is mechanically top-notch and runs so smoothly I'm still in awe after riding it home, especially coming from an opafiets

TIA

P.S. the saddle is all lowered bc I can barely touch the ground with my foot while standing ahah

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Old 07-28-15, 07:15 AM
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Need full-on drive side pic please. You are correct, one or possibly both of the mismatched rims are not original.

It seems that the seat cluster lug is a window lug, perhaps that is a clue.
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Old 07-28-15, 07:41 AM
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Here you go



If you need any other detail don't hesitate to ask.
From my early research I got that it could be either a Gran Prix or a Super Course but I'm basing myself on plain visual observation / sparse specs reading so I'm totally not confident about that.
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Old 07-28-15, 11:20 AM
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I hate to point this out, but this may be too big for you. If the saddle is correctly adjusted for proper leg extension while riding it is way to big. Also the stem looks like it may be about the safe minimum insertion mark.

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Old 07-28-15, 12:21 PM
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That is not a 54cm frame, it appears to be around 60cm.
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Old 07-28-15, 12:51 PM
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did gazelle built raleighs have headplates stating "nottingham"?

brake calipers appear to be weinmann 605.

frame not only looks larger than 54, it looks larger than 60 as well.

the milremo dropouts may be a clue for some readers...

appears 1978-79ish.

this is a curious puzzle.

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Old 07-28-15, 01:32 PM
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It looks like a late seventies, early eighties Nottingham-built Raleigh. Check the serial number under the bottom bracket. It will probably confirm this and also tell you when it was built. Is the original color 'ice blue'? The (very nice) Record Ace came in that color ...
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Old 07-28-15, 07:17 PM
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Well this site: Raleigh Bicycle History

...says "Raleigh was manufacturing the Raleigh Record and Grand Prix not only in Nottingham, but also in Worksop, the Netherlands, Ireland, and rumors suggest even Malaysia."

All the made-in-England Grand Prixs I remember seeing had stamped rear drop-outs, not the forged like in the OP photos. (I think the Bridgestone made Super Grand Prixs had forged drop-outs.)

And I think all the made-in-England
Super Courses I remember had the brake cable on the bottom/side of the top tube. (US made Super Courses had it on top?)

So I don't know.
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Old 07-29-15, 02:59 AM
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Man I already love this place
First, thank you to all the ones who pointed out the suspicious frame size, I went with the owner's word that he measured and found out 54 cm but I just measured it and it is indeed 60+ cm.
Wow I'm 1.63 (5'3) I really really thought that I couldn't even jump on a 60 cm frame, but with the current configuration, when the pedal is at the lowest point, my knee is still slightly bent? Also I think the seatpost should be orientated the other way around?

@Bianchigirll do you mean that the stem can just be barely inserted into the frame?

I cleaned the bottom bracket, as previously stated for some reasons the bike has been summarily repainted so only a couple of characters are visible, namely an initial W, D, then some hint of a digit that could be anything (the year damn!) then what appear to be two 0s.
Here you go:



Again thank you to all your precious hints and help, as it says under my nickname I'm still a newbie racebike-wise

P.S. bwaaah I don't want to get rid of it, it's so goooood :'(
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Old 07-29-15, 03:24 AM
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The bike is way too big for you. You think it rides so good, because you don't yet know how good a properly fitting bike rides like. Get a different bike, you won't regret it.

See here for Raleigh serial numbers. Raleigh Serial Numbers & Charts
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Old 07-29-15, 03:53 AM
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Thanks for the additional pictures. Looks like March '81 could be the build date. Could be Worksop or Nottingham, as apparently the production of "W" frames moved from Worksop to Nottingham around that time.

Based on what I think I see in your pictures (windowed lugs, scalloped seat stays, no fender eyelets, white color underneath) my guess for now would be it's a 1981 Scirocco.
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Old 07-29-15, 04:30 AM
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Woohoo and we have a winner apparently!
I found this thread here on BF with a lot of pictures that confirm your hypothesis, in particular the third one:

*scrap scrap*


I initially thought that the white paint was some kind of primer / anti-rust.
It's carlton built frame wow.

Finally, can you wonderful lot give me an educated quotation for this bike in order to very very very very heart-brokenly try to get rid of it?

Thank you again non-fixie and the rest
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Old 07-29-15, 04:37 AM
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Not sure where you live or the local market. In the US, as is, about $100.
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Old 07-29-15, 05:13 AM
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Well, over here it would be a challenge to get more than €50 for it. And even then you'd have to present it very well.

This is my WE1, pictured at the LBS from whom I bought it. After a week on our local classifieds site I was the highest bidder at €50:

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Old 07-29-15, 06:22 AM
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Originally Posted by chunky_bacon
Man I already love this place even jump on a 60 cm frame, but with the current configuration, when the pedal is at the lowest point, my knee is still slightly bent? Also I think the seatpost should be orientated the other way around? Yes the angled portion should be pointing aft.

@Bianchigirll do you mean that the stem can just be barely inserted into the frame?

THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT I MEAN AND IT CAN BE DANGEROUS!!

Again thank you to all your precious hints and help, as it says under my nickname I'm still a newbie racebike-wise

P.S. bwaaah I don't want to get rid of it, it's so goooood :'(
That's too bad but we have all been there, done that and it is part of the learning experience. I bought a Bianchi once and even though I stood over it and measured the stand over height and the frame... it was just too small. So it had to go to another home.

Just what size is this? What is the stand over height?
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Old 07-29-15, 06:54 AM
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Originally Posted by non-fixie
Well, over here it would be a challenge to get more than €50 for it. And even then you'd have to present it very well.
Wow that's even less than what people ask for a battered omafiets.

This is my WE1, pictured at the LBS from whom I bought it. After a week on our local classifieds site I was the highest bidder at €50:
Very nice I got it for 60 naive me, everything else on the internet either started at 100 or for that price had missing parts / devouring rust.
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Old 07-29-15, 06:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll
That's too bad but we have all been there, done that and it is part of the learning experience. I bought a Bianchi once and even though I stood over it and measured the stand over height and the frame... it was just too small. So it had to go to another home.

Just what size is this? What is the stand over height?
I think I'm almost over the bargaining/depression stages of grief and heading towards acceptance now, also because the standover height is such that I can't stand over the bike while touching the ground with full soles (I can't take a precise reading, I only have rudimentary means of measuring now sorry)
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Old 07-29-15, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by chunky_bacon
I think I'm almost over the bargaining/depression stages of grief and heading towards acceptance now, also because the standover height is such that I can't stand over the bike while touching the ground with full soles (I can't take a precise reading, I only have rudimentary means of measuring now sorry)
I feel your pain. I just had to pass on a nice-ish Centurion that was too large for me.

On the other hand - was able to make a tall friend happy with a nice-ish bike at a great price.
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Old 07-29-15, 08:02 AM
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Well this person appears to be near you and he is trying to get 300 euros for his 1981 Raleigh Scirocco:


? Raleigh Scirocco 1981 - Fietsen | Racefietsen - Marktplaats.nl


With some effort you should be able to find another Carlton frame that is you size, in the same conditions, that you should be able to get for about what you paid for this one. If you clean this one up, grease everything that needs it and replace the missing parts, and are willing to wait for the right buyer, I'm thinking you can sell it for what you paid for it. If you have even more time on your hands you can try to sell all the part separatly, and maybe get more than what you paid for it.
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Old 07-29-15, 10:09 AM
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Yeah, I saw that €300 Scirocco. The seller is an optimist. He might fetch €150 for it on a good day, but by not accepting offers below his asking price my guess is it will remain unsold.
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Old 07-30-15, 04:58 AM
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Just a couple of questions more

I found a T.I. Raleigh m.y. 1980 with framesize 54cm, it has 26" wheels, is this a normal thing for smaller frames?

Do you think this bike is worth 150e?
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Old 07-30-15, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by chunky_bacon
Just a couple of questions more

I found a T.I. Raleigh m.y. 1980 with frame size 54cm, it has 26" wheels, is this a normal thing for smaller frames?

Do you think this bike is worth 150e?
With regard to the 26" wheels: that would depend very much on the model. Over here city bikes did often come with 26"wheels in those days. Racing bikes did not.

With regard to the value: not where I live. Unless it's something really special. Your local market may be quite different though.
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Old 07-30-15, 12:37 PM
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Actually I'm living in Amsterdam for another 10 days or so, I found the TI on marktplaats, it is located in the far south of the Netherlands.
There's another one going for 300e :O

My local market (Venice area) is very very inflated and very very poor Raleigh-wise

That's why I got a racefiets here, and plan to ship it back home, it'll still be cheaper (plus I'll have a souvenir yay!)

Since I'm not a pro and this is my first racebike, and given the difficulty of finding another vintage bike in the same conditions for the same amount in 10 days I'm keeping the Sirocco, I fixed the stem height, I'm getting a new saddle pole that can let me gain a couple of cm and I'll ride away with it for a while, then probably I'll try to restore the original paint/decals/missing parts and (again) maybe sell it

Anyway many many thanks to everyone for the helpful hints and words of advice and for the help in identifying it!
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