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Vintage Italian track bike ID help

Old 10-05-16, 11:41 AM
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Vintage Italian track bike ID help

Trying to figure out who may have made this frame:

Racing Track fixie Italian steel





Seat tube decal looks like a Columbus special tubing for Garlatti?

I requested some more pics from seller, but you never know what you're gonna get.

TIA
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Old 10-05-16, 11:46 AM
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Given that fine paint job I'd doubt the veracity of any decal. I have seen that style of seat tube cap before but right now I am darned if I recall on what.

Sorry.
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Old 10-05-16, 11:52 AM
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Well, the sticker does appear to be early Columbus. Not exactly the kind of thing you slap on a rattle-can paint job:

COLUMBUS main

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Old 10-05-16, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by billytwosheds View Post
Well, the sticker does appear to be early Columbus. Not exactly the kind of thing you slap on a rattle-can paint job:
Actually, I've seen it done more than once, in hopes the buyer will think it's legit.
Note the absence of a seat post binder bolt...hope the seat post isn't frozen in place.
If you can get the seat post diameter size it may help determine if the tubing really is Columbus or not.
As presented IMHO $300 is on the high side without having proof the tubing matches the decal. With proof - FMV.
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Old 10-05-16, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by exxongraftek View Post
Actually, I've seen it done more than once, in hopes the buyer will think it's legit.
Note the absence of a seat post binder bolt...hope the seat post isn't frozen in place.
If you can get the seat post diameter size it may help determine if the tubing really is Columbus or not.
As presented IMHO $300 is on the high side without having proof the tubing matches the decal. With proof - FMV.
Good point.

The seller says the whole bike was painted over, but the sticker was masked off. He said it could be an Olmo, but not sure.

Either way, I'm taking a look at it tomorrow afternoon. Will letcha know what I find.
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Old 10-05-16, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by billytwosheds View Post
Good point.

The seller says the whole bike was painted over, but the sticker was masked off. He said it could be an Olmo, but not sure.

Either way, I'm taking a look at it tomorrow afternoon. Will letcha know what I find.
What the seller says could be true, but IMHO the rear seat stay bridge is much newer than that decal.
This bike does not pass the smell test from here. Maybe it's just because of the distance. Be careful.
Let us know how this turns out. We don't get nearly enough of that kind of feedback. Thanks!
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Old 10-06-16, 06:15 AM
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I concur, the tubing pre-dates the cast brake bridge. Also, these decals are notoriously fragile so to have one totally intact after 38 years warrants caution. At this point I'd be trying to establish if it is actually Columbus track tubing. If so, it will have the five patented helical ridges inside the bottom of the fork's steerer tube and the post diameter will be either 272.mm (PL) or 27.0mm (PS).
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Old 10-06-16, 08:53 AM
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FWIW, the bike does have the Suntour Superbe components going for it. Can't see if the rear hub matches the front, though. I have seen that seat stay treatment before but cannot recall on what.
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Old 10-06-16, 09:00 AM
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I would say pass the missing binder bolt and the fact that it looks like someone just spray painted over what looks like rust pitting are troubling. Also it seems a bit odd that you would see a supposedly higher end vintage Italian track bike with Superbe stuff on it and in this rough of shape.
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Old 10-06-16, 11:56 AM
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Thanks for the comments and info @exxongraftek @T-Mar @CV-6 and @zukahn1.

I'll definitely give the paint a critical look, and if it's clearly rust that's been painted over I will either pass or offer much much less than the asking price.

The seatpost size is a good check, one of the first places I'll look.

The rear brake bridge is interesting, and it doesn't seem to match the tubing sticker. I did manage to find some Guerciottis that have a similar brake bridge, albeit with pantographing:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...eed-drive.html



But really, a cast brake bridge like that probably could have been sourced from a number of locations by a number of frame builders.

One other anecdote, the seller said he acquired the bike from an old friend of his who primarily rode on the track. It was one of his older frames, and it could have been an Olmo. No Googling supported that idea, though.

Appreciate the thoughts, let me know if you guys think of anything else I should check out when I take a look.
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Old 10-06-16, 11:58 AM
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That seat stay end was made famous by the Gios brothers, but there were others who copied it. Need to see the lugs, bb dropouts, etc. Gios did make track bikes but they were relatively uncommon.
I agree with everyone about the decal and the rear bridge being a dating mismatch.
If the dropouts are Campy there's a fair chance the tubing is Columbus.
Worth looking at further, I think.
Best regards, Eric



Billy,
That bridge was very common, if there's no panto on it, it just says later than the tubing sticker.

One of the guys who used those end caps was a former frame brazer for Gios. Might be worth looking at him, since from what I can see the lugs also look like the Gios style of long taper. I forget his name and the name the bikes were marketed under, but there should be a thread here, or somewhere....

Last edited by Last ride 76; 10-06-16 at 12:06 PM.
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Old 10-06-16, 05:00 PM
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@Last ride 76 Thanks, that was helpful.

So I ended up picking up the bike, but won't be able to post pictures until tonight when I get home from work.

The brake bridge has "BREV..." panto'd into the top flat part of it. The rattlecan paint makes it hard to tell what the second ~4 character word is. Oddly enough, the Columbus sticker, Suntour Superbe Pro decal, and another one that says "WK Bike Shop San Diego" were all neatly placed on the seat tube. A cursory Google search didn't turn up anything about the shop.

The rear dropouts are stamped Gipiemme. I haven't checked the fork ends, but will when I get home.

The bottom bracket has cutouts similar to a Gios frame I have, like this:



Stem and bars are Cinelli, and the rest of the components are all Suntour Superbe, or Superbe Pro. Hubs and rims are matching, no broken spokes.

As noted earlier, the fork has no drilling for a brake, but I have a Tange fork I may replace it with so I can run it as a single speed.

Based on the above, any thoughts?

I know, I know...pictures or else.

Billy
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Old 10-06-16, 05:20 PM
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Still no clue on who made but it does sound better than it came across in photos. The Superbe Pro components if original would place it as a fairly high end mid 80's build 84-88.
VeloBase.com - Component: SunTour CW-6000, Superbe Pro (Track)
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Old 10-06-16, 07:22 PM
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I found the name I was thinking about.

Check out Mauro Sannino.
You might be able to match more frame details. He was working for the Gios brothers and then went out on his own in the eighties... The brake bridge would fit with that also. Good reputation for racing bikes. Built team bikes for the Polish and Russian national teams.
At a reasonable price, whatever that means, I would take the gamble. Someone cared enough to build it with top-rate components. And most crap track bikes came with drilled fork, in my experience. Since you said rear dropouts are Gipiemme it might be a "mid-level" tubeset

Good luck!
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Old 10-07-16, 03:17 AM
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Originally Posted by Last ride 76 View Post
I found the name I was thinking about.

Check out Mauro Sannino.
You might be able to match more frame details. He was working for the Gios brothers and then went out on his own in the eighties... The brake bridge would fit with that also. Good reputation for racing bikes. Built team bikes for the Polish and Russian national teams.
At a reasonable price, whatever that means, I would take the gamble. Someone cared enough to build it with top-rate components. And most crap track bikes came with drilled fork, in my experience. Since you said rear dropouts are Gipiemme it might be a "mid-level" tubeset

Good luck!
Pretty much spot on!

The frame is very similar to this one, by Mauro Sannino:

https://casbahcicloclub.com/2015/01/31/sannino/

Here's mine (sorry the poor full side shot):



It's fully Suntour Superbe Pro right down to the rear cog.





Bottom bracket is very similar to my Gios frame.



There's a sticker on the seat tube that says "Koichi Nakano" so maybe a team rider's bike?

Before I move it over to the main C&V forum, any ideas to what it's worth?

Promise to have better pictures (and of the inside of the head tube and fork) soon.

Current full album is here.

Thanks!

Last edited by billytwosheds; 10-07-16 at 03:18 AM. Reason: added album
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Old 10-07-16, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by billytwosheds View Post
...There's a sticker on the seat tube that says "Koichi Nakano" so maybe a team rider's bike?...
Koichi Nakano was a 10 time World Sprint Champion from 1977-1986. He rode bicycles manufactured by Yoshiaki Nagasawa for most, if not all, of his professional career.
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Old 10-07-16, 09:04 AM
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[QUOTE=T-Mar;19107288]Koichi Nakano was a 10 time World Sprint Champion from 1977-1986. /QUOTE]



That's what I was gonna say. One of the greatest track cyclists of all time. I didn't know what bikes he rode.
I would say that the name is suspect, like the Columbus decal, but either someone had a weird sense of humor or...

(more research!)

Cheers,
Eric


I just saw the sticker picture. I think it's just a Suntour decal reflecting that Nakano "rode" Superbe Pro to victory in 1985. Sannino seemed to use a lot of Gios type fittings without the "Gios" trademark stamped into them. Probably knew the suppliers reps and continued to deal with them when he began building on his own.

If the rust isn't BAD, I think it's a keeper, worth restoring as a probable Sannino. Value? I don't know. On the mainland, in NY area, I would pay $200 maybe $250, and repaint. Not an easy money maker, even at $150...I spend way too much time and money stripping, cleaning and repainting. By the time it was finished, I would easily have 20-30 hrs. into it.

Last edited by Last ride 76; 10-07-16 at 09:43 AM. Reason: update
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Old 10-07-16, 12:34 PM
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Thanks @T-Mar and @Last ride 76.

I should have Googled Koichi Nakano before posting. Youtube has lots of near videos of his old races.

The Gios connection makes sense. I'll wrap this thread up now and start one over in the main C&V once I get her cleaned up.
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