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Medici Pro Strada Frameset

Old 11-06-16, 02:34 PM
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Medici Pro Strada Frameset

I'll see if I can post some pics but looking at getting Medici Pro Strada for the parts. The Frame is a little small for me, but I could use the bits that are on it. What would a Medici Pro Strada frameset fetch in VG condition? I guess these are mid-range Italian quality right.
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Old 11-06-16, 02:42 PM
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Medici has an...interesting...history.

Basically, and accounts vary somewhat, the business sponsor/patron of Mario Confente stole his designs and wanted to use them for a production line called - Medici. Mario immediately quit/revolted.

Generally they aren't terribly valuable, or especially well regarded. They aren't Italian either, rather they are Italian influenced. I think these were built by Simonetti and John Howard.

John Howard also has an...interesting....history that probably shouldn't be mentioned.

If you have a few hours...this is an interesting read, though be somewhat skeptical of EVERYONE'S memories/contributions as I suspect they're all self serving and biased to varying degrees. My one take away was...wow, I wouldn't want to deal with any of these people. Borgia would have been the more appropriate branding.

https://www.classicrendezvous.com/USA...d_confente.htm

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Old 11-06-16, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
Medici has an...interesting...history.

Basically, and accounts vary somewhat, the business sponsor/patron of Mario Confente stole his designs and wanted to use them for a production line called - Medici. Mario immediately quit/revolted.

Generally they aren't terribly valuable, or especially well regarded. They aren't Italian either, rather they are Italian influenced. I think these were built by Simonetti and John Howard.

John Howard also has an...interesting....history that probably shouldn't be mentioned.
Oh ok I thought they had American ownership but were contract built in Italy. Seems like they might be a little nicer than a Guerciotti or Tomaso, but maybe are the same type of thing.

Is the frameset worth $300?
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Old 11-06-16, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by WolfRyder View Post
Oh ok I thought they had American ownership but were contract built in Italy. Seems like they might be a little nicer than a Guerciotti or Tomaso, but maybe are the same type of thing.

Is the frameset worth $300?
Maybe? Probably not. Neither brand you named is especially desirable either. I've only seen one Medici...nothing remarkable or horrible looking.

There are some members who have them and they seem to like them. If you're buying to flip, be VERY careful on price is my advice. To me they're bad juju.
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Old 11-06-16, 03:10 PM
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Well it's nice when you get a whole bike where everything is good, but thats not always the case. The bits are what I am after on this bike. Think trying to sell the frameset might not be so bad, but not quite adding up so far for what the guy is asking.
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Old 11-06-16, 03:15 PM
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1. What size is it?
2. What are the parts?
3. Where/how is he selling it?

Photo would help.

Again...I'd be very conservative.
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Old 11-06-16, 04:15 PM
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Mike Howard was the torch on Medici frames, not 3-time Olympian and world record land speed holder John Howard.


While the marque's history is indeed interesting, both from a psychological and interpersonal standpoint, the bikes were, in my opinion, pretty much as good as anything else being produced at the time, either in the USA or abroad. Aaron is correct in that they do not have the cache' or potential sales value of a Masi, but I've owned two of them and they re very nicely made and finished indeed. In fact, here's a picture of one that I have for sale:





As a frameset alone, I'd value this one at about double the price above, although I did sell a very nicely kept Hellenic stay Medici earlier this year for (I think) around $350 plus shipping.
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Old 11-06-16, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by rccardr View Post
Mike Howard was the torch on Medici frames, not 3-time Olympian and world record land speed holder John Howard.


While the marque's history is indeed interesting, both from a psychological and interpersonal standpoint, the bikes were, in my opinion, pretty much as good as anything else being produced at the time, either in the USA or abroad. Aaron is correct in that they do not have the cache' or potential sales value of a Masi, but I've owned two of them and they re very nicely made and finished indeed. In fact, here's a picture of one that I have for sale:





As a frameset alone, I'd value this one at about double the price above, although I did sell a very nicely kept Hellenic stay Medici earlier this year for (I think) around $350 plus shipping.
Confused my Howards! Thanks rrcrd.

I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on Medici frame values, and yours is quite pretty, but based on my experience and observations, I'd still suggest caution as far as value. I hope you get your asking price.

As always, your patience, marketing and how you sell it...not to mention size and condition, matter a lot. I would defer to rccard, but I'll say I'd value it lower. I've also been surprised before, and it only takes one buyer who values it differently.

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Old 11-06-16, 05:12 PM
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I believe Brian Baylis painted for them as well.
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Old 11-06-16, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Vonruden View Post
I believe Brian Baylis painted for them as well.
I think he did some early ones, but I thought he left to do his own thing soon after.
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Old 11-06-16, 09:05 PM
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Yes, Brian Bayliss painted the very early ones, and I think some of the early 80's ones as well. I don't know who held the gun when mine was done, but the work is stellar, as good as anything I've seen elsewhere, and I've had/have Joe Bell, Ed Litton and CycleArt work in the Lab for comparison.

Paint quality on Medici frames was kind of off-and-on through the mid 80's, at least according to Bayliss, so important to look at the specific frame in question to determine where it fits in the pantheon of good paintwork.
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Old 11-06-16, 10:50 PM
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Unfortunately, values on Medici bicycles had been unjustly based on op-ed opinions on the owners and builders who ran the company back in the 80's and not valued for what the bikes really are, high quality, hand built bicycles that are more than equals to high line bicycles sold in the 80's (.....including Masis....).....
I believe that people will eventually ignore all the business history static around the brand and appreciate the bikes for what they really are, and the values on Medicis will eventually rise to where they should be, in line with top quality steel bikes from around the world.
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Old 11-07-16, 12:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Chombi1 View Post
Unfortunately, values on Medici bicycles had been unjustly based on op-ed opinions on the owners and builders who ran the company back in the 80's and not valued for what the bikes really are, high quality, hand built bicycles that are more than equals to high line bicycles sold in the 80's (.....including Masis....).....
I believe that people will eventually ignore all the business history static around the brand and appreciate the bikes for what they really are, and the values on Medicis will eventually rise to where they should be, in line with top quality steel bikes from around the world.

The bike has an Italian name and feel, so people lump them in with other Italian mfg's. Who spoiled us with numerous brands back in 70's 80's. So then where do Medici Pro-Stradas fit in that hierarchy? And how do you find out where and who made the frame? So these are supposedly USA made not from Italy? I still think they might have been made in Italy, but what do I know.
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Old 11-07-16, 01:37 AM
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Originally Posted by WolfRyder View Post
The bike has an Italian name and feel, so people lump them in with other Italian mfg's. Who spoiled us with numerous brands back in 70's 80's. So then where do Medici Pro-Stradas fit in that hierarchy? And how do you find out where and who made the frame? So these are supposedly USA made not from Italy? I still think they might have been made in Italy, but what do I know.
Same as how you might compare an American made Eisentraut, Fuso, or yes, even a Carlsbad made Masi, to top line Italian made bikes of the time. You do not have to consider what the names sound like, you just consider how well they are made and how the qualities compare.....
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Old 11-07-16, 07:10 AM
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Medici frames were all made in America. None were produced elsewhere.


From a practical perspective (e.g. materials, workmanship, finish, ride quality) they are as good as anything made of Columbus SL or Tange tubing during that period anywhere in the world. However, in terms of cache', collectability and public reputation, they lag somewhat behind other better-known brands. In this, they are not alone.
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Old 11-07-16, 08:19 AM
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Yes, Made in USA. Downtown Los Angeles I believe. Mine has a little American Flag decal.
I got one that was painted really well, and it still has the clear coat on it... from 1985.
Some had terrible paint jobs... you will see.
Nice riding bike. A Masi knockoff.
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Old 11-07-16, 08:50 AM
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I don't think that the quality of Medici is what some others here think based on conversations with frame builders, the brand doesn't have the racing history, or the innovation in the market place, that a top regarded marquee has and I don't think they'll ever be mentioned with marquees that do have that history. I also don't think the story will ever be divorced from the shennagigans surrounding the brand because the shenanigans are a part of the brand. The mythology always matters.

If someone wants a bargain frame set that might sell low based on branding, and which will out perform price, this might be a good buy. If you're looking for Medici to become a glorious, well regarded brand...I don't think it's going to happen. Even the brand name is cheesey. Hey guys! Let's get something italian history sounding! It's consistent with the history of the brand.

Branding and mythology matter...and I can think of a lot of under the radar builders I'd want before Medici. The only thing that Bayliss and Cunningham do seem to agree on is that Medici was inconsistent and boring.

At any rate the OP specifically asked about value of the frame post-part out. Some are nicer...rrccrd's is a beauty and I could see someone being smitten with it...but, overall, you want to be conservative here. I think photos of this example would help. There may be exceptions, like rrccrd's, but $300 is probably ambitious for most of them unless they're in very nice shape.

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Old 11-07-16, 11:46 AM
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I think with Medici, you get a lot of bang for your buck. Again, my opinion, but to me it's close to Carlsbad Masi quality, similar geometry with a lower price tag.

What size is the bike?
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Old 11-07-16, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by satbuilder View Post
I think with Medici, you get a lot of bang for your buck. Again, my opinion, but to me it's close to Carlsbad Masi quality, similar geometry with a lower price tag.

What size is the bike?
I don't disagree with this at all, but I think the value, or perceived value, of a brand involves a lot more than that. Take a Cinelli copy Windsor...made from good tubing, came with quality parts...built reasonably well from all reports. The Windsor frame is probably worth 1/8th of a Cinelli while probably not being that dissimilar. It's probably a perfectly adequate frame...

But one is a copy while the other has mystique, influence and race wins.
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Old 11-07-16, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by satbuilder View Post
I think with Medici, you get a lot of bang for your buck. Again, my opinion, but to me it's close to Carlsbad Masi quality, similar geometry with a lower price tag.

What size is the bike?

58cm probably early 80's.
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Old 11-07-16, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Chombi1 View Post
Unfortunately, values on Medici bicycles had been unjustly based on op-ed opinions on the owners and builders who ran the company back in the 80's and not valued for what the bikes really are, high quality, hand built bicycles that are more than equals to high line bicycles sold in the 80's (.....including Masis....).....
I believe that people will eventually ignore all the business history static around the brand and appreciate the bikes for what they really are, and the values on Medicis will eventually rise to where they should be, in line with top quality steel bikes from around the world.
Be nice if the ship came in for my Medici.
Some had "buy-out" forks. Think Tange.
"blessed are the poor for they will inherit the Medicis"
Most had good build quality. Paint is all over the map.

The brand history is… intriguing, heavy on the intrigue.

$180 to $225 frame and fork.
I have watched prices, some do better, many do not.
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Old 11-07-16, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by WolfRyder View Post
58cm probably early 80's.
My size...I'd be interested to see some pics.
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Old 11-14-16, 12:23 PM
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Recent datapoint, ebay auction sale of a complete Gran-Turismo, not too bad, Some Campagnolo including cranks, under $350. complete.
The big influence? Local pick up.
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Old 11-14-16, 12:48 PM
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-----

Recall hearing from folks in the trade back at launch that all of the frames were subbed. This has always made me wonder if there is a way to determine the maker of an individual unit.

Did Mr. Howard build them all in a workshop in downtown Los Angeles?

Sounds like more than one painter was employed.

Reckon this has probably been very well covered on the CR email list...

-----
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Old 11-14-16, 01:04 PM
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An interesting read, if you have the time.

The Nedici and Confente story (argument?)
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