Kevindale

I think this is an '88. I see in various threads here, and on the net, some raves about this bike. Is it all that?



I don't need another bike (who does, right?) but I'm in the area and wondering if this is too good a bike to pass up.
https://louisville.craigslist.org/bik/5867756182.html
Pictures are lousy, but it looks original with sweet Ultegra 600 (except I'm not sure about the RD). Seller says the top tube and seat tube were measured at 22" but it looks like at least a 23"/58cm (perfect for me) or maybe 60cm (too big). Not sure I love the paint job, but it could grow on me.

CO_Hoya 

I've been watching it on eBay for quite a while now (I think it started at $350).

My 2 cents:
I would describe it as a better version of the much-praised Centurion Ironman. It has similar geometry and components, but with better tubing (Tange Prestige) and a vastly underrated builder (Panasonic). It appears nearly or entirely original and in good condition.

If I lived near Louisville, I would have bought it by now. If you buy it and it's too big for you, let me know and maybe we can work something out.

Kevindale

Thank you. I'm going to try to see the bike.

CO_Hoya 

I'd try to get it for $200-225 to feel real good about it, especially if it's got the original tires, brake pads, etc. It's a very strong buyer's market right now.

Good luck!

zukahn1 

I think it's very nice bike worth getting the price is slightly below FMV. As said these are a bit undervalued compared to some of the other similar late 80's Japanese built Centurions and Miyatas that seem to sell at a bit of a premium.

StarBiker

Is $275 to much to ask for this bike? Really? One thing I hate is sellers like this. No details, and two crappy pics.
One thing for sure, it is a buyers market. I am having a hard time with bikes that were easy flips a few years ago.

KonAaron Snake 

I wouldn't sell that bike for a penny under $400 in my market, and if you offered under 300 I would block your email/number.

Agree that panasonics are under valued on quality. That's a heck of a bike IMO.

StarBiker

I really like the color scheme. I thought the 5000 was way up there in the pecking order of Panny's.

KonAaron Snake 

It was their top of the line standard production bike...they also had the PICS program and team bikes. Rough equivalent of a Miyata 914/6. Very nice bike.

jet sanchEz

I have two Panasonics, great quality bikes, my PR5000 is on par with any Italian racing bike of the same era.

Wileyone 

Yes and way above any Centurion Ironman. I have my eyes on a 6000ax that is mint. I just can't justify the cost.

tmh657

Nice. I am curious what a mint 6000 will set you back.

Wileyone 

You are not helping with my "torture". Looking at $1500 CDN asking could make it down to $1200 CDN. This Bicycle is NOS. And I have been looking for a Japanese Grail Bicycle. Just can't seem to pull the trigger. The Dura Ace AX Group set is hard to find and if you price it out on EBAY the Bicycle is a bargain.

jet sanchEz

Is that the one Cam has? I saw it the other day, it's in great condition.

KonAaron Snake 

Be careful with over valuing those AX parts...asking prices on eBay are high, and you may think they're valuable, but I don't think they're selling. Interest/appreciation for AX is pretty limited.

I think the stuff is pretty cool, and an AX bike was something I actively looked for...but I also think they're a potential dog. I've seen full ax bikes sit at lower than you'd think pricing.

I (biased) think I have the most interesting aero/AX bike that was on the market (I don't think it's even close)...but I also suspect I paid more than I could sell for.

Wileyone 

I agree. That is why I haven't pulled the trigger yet. Such a Pretty Bicycle though. Those Oval Prestiege Tubes are oh so cool. My Japanese Grail Bicycle still awaits me.

KonAaron Snake 

Totally with you about them being extremely cool, but we're a small cult.

The flip to the low demand on this is that there also aren't many of them around, and owners usually don't want to sell cheap (I wouldn't). It's one of those cases where there is value there, but it could take a while. Dig?

I'm still not entirely clear on the tubing...tange had an aero tubeset...I believe what you see on panasonics...but the lotus/tsondo models are very different and more radical. Probably tange proprietary, but I've never been able to get confirmation.

Wileyone 

I had thought it was called Aero Prestige oval tubing.

KonAaron Snake 

I *think* that there were two tube sets...one plain gauge, one db. At least that's as per the lotus catalog. The Panasonic used the lower end one...I believe the Koga Miyata used the higher end one. I have no idea on the centurion, or those Shimano labeled ones (I think those are panasonics, but I'm not sure). If you look at the various models, you'll see they all had some very different features...different headtubes, stays and seat clusters.

There's just not that much info (or interest) in these.

To me the lotus aero supreme (tsunoda) was the most radical/interesting, closely followed by the Koga Miyata. The centurion is probably the most rare.

KonAaron Snake 

Tim - I forget his BF name - knew a bit about these, and I'd wager t-mar can elaborate with more accurate info.

Paging mr. T-mar...

(Apologies to OP for thread drift)

Wileyone 

I had always thought Panasonic was slightly ahead of their Time.

KonAaron Snake 

Most definitely, but, in this case, they were behind Lotus. The bike's retail at the time was several hundred less than Lotus, so that likely explains some of this. They don't have some of the cool features that the lotus does.

Wileyone 

Any Lotus Pics?

KonAaron Snake 

Kevindale

Wow, that Lotus is beautiful! That's a grail bike for sure.