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Value and Year of Specialized Allez SE?

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Value and Year of Specialized Allez SE?

Old 11-28-16, 11:22 PM
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AL7000
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Value and Year of Specialized Allez SE?

Suntour shifters, I think they are Superbe but I'm not sure.
Shimano dropouts.
Dia-Compe brakes.
Front derailleur isn't labeled.
Rear derailleur just has an "S" on it.

Seatpost size: 27.2mm.
Bike weighs: 21.8 lbs.
Frameset weighs: 6 lbs 3 oz
Frame weighs: 4 lbs 9 oz.

Internally there is rust inside of the seat tube, however it is superficial and not heavy. I don't believe there is a lot of internal rust on the other tubes.

I am not sure what year the frame is. Serial number is: JS58411 (Its hard to read on the bottom bracket, but I think that is correct).

What is the year of this frame?

What is the value of this bike? And is it worth stripping the frame down and repainting?
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Old 11-29-16, 02:55 AM
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No expert, but probably early 80's, unfortunately not much value aside from parts with the rust especially the cable guide being gone. That being said these were pretty nice bikes and if you can do the repaint yourself I would go for it. We need a good pic of the non driveside chainstay for better assessment.
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Old 11-29-16, 06:53 AM
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It is a 1986 model manufactured in October 1985, in Japan. The rear derailleur is SunTour Superbe Pro, while the front is SunTour Cyclone. Both are OEM spec. The tubeset is unspecified and marketing suggests a customized tubeset developed for SBI. Based on the post size, it is probably a derivation of Ishiwata 022. I'll defer to others on value.
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Old 11-29-16, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
No expert, but probably early 80's, unfortunately not much value aside from parts with the rust especially the cable guide being gone. That being said these were pretty nice bikes and if you can do the repaint yourself I would go for it. We need a good pic of the non driveside chainstay for better assessment.
+ 1. That frame is not worth much.
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Old 11-29-16, 07:03 AM
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Looks like the bike in American Flyers. Love that movie and love that bike.
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Old 11-29-16, 08:25 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
It is a 1986 model manufactured in October 1985, in Japan. The rear derailleur is SunTour Superbe Pro, while the front is SunTour Cyclone. Both are OEM spec. The tubeset is unspecified and marketing suggests a customized tubeset developed for SBI. Based on the post size, it is probably a derivation of Ishiwata 022. I'll defer to others on value.
Thank you! That answers one of the big questions I had about the bike. A couple more questions to increase my knowledge:

What about the serial number points to the bike being manufactured in October 1985, in Japan with the model year being 1986?

What does SBI stand for?

The fork is stamped tange, does that change anything in regards to the frame being Ishiwata 022?

Thanks!
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Old 11-29-16, 09:16 AM
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It'd make a decent low-guilt fixed gear conversion. That way you wouldn't care about the missing cable guide and you could add the Suntour stuff to your parts bin.
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Old 11-29-16, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by AL7000 View Post
Thank you! That answers one of the big questions I had about the bike. A couple more questions to increase my knowledge:

What about the serial number points to the bike being manufactured in October 1985, in Japan with the model year being 1986?

What does SBI stand for?

The fork is stamped tange, does that change anything in regards to the frame being Ishiwata 022?

Thanks!
SBI is the acronym for Specialized Bicycle Components Inc., the formal company name.

For interpreting the serial number, refer to the Specialized entry in my https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ber-guide.html .

A Tange fork would normally imply a Tange frame. However, all of Tange's double butted CrMo frames from this era used a double butted seat tube and a post of 26.6-26.8mm. The only exception was Tange Prestige which used a 27.2mm post and was heated treated. The SBI literature does not mention heat treating and this is not the type of feature that a marketer would pass up, so it's unlikely to be Tange Prestige. Consequently, it is either a custom Tange tube or an Ishiwata tubeset with a Tange fork. The latter is very rare but not unknown.
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Old 11-29-16, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by AL7000 View Post
Thank you! That answers one of the big questions I had about the bike. A couple more questions to increase my knowledge:

What about the serial number points to the bike being manufactured in October 1985, in Japan with the model year being 1986?

What does SBI stand for?

The fork is stamped tange, does that change anything in regards to the frame being Ishiwata 022?

Thanks!
There is a lot of info on this if you dig enough. On the other Roadbike forum there is a thread that goes into detail on frames and tubesets. That being said it is still very hard say exactly what was done and when. Specialized spec'ed
a lot of their own tubes and everything else as they had some serious braintrust working on this at all times. Some of the best in the business, Merz, DiNucci, Neenan and others were sent to Japan to coach and guide them into producing some of the best production frames up to that point, but one of the main things these guys talk about is not being sure who was doing what and when, brand of tubes, SBI spec or not etc. The bottom line is SBI and their Guru's had a serious impact on the framebuilding industry as a whole from the inside out with Panasonic, Miyata and many others benefiting greatly from it, not to mention that they were pulling the levers on their own destiny to the tune of good profits by controlling quality and production.

Last edited by merziac; 11-29-16 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 11-29-16, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by AL7000 View Post
What is the value of this bike? And is it worth stripping the frame down and repainting?
The value depends a lot on your local market. As is, the rust is going to scare away most buyers but the components will attract a few. I'd guess maybe $100 -- if you cleaned up the rust and gave it a decent rattle can paint job you might get $200.

The second question here is interesting. It depends on what you mean by "worth". If you mean "Would I be able to sell it for as much as it cost me to have it stripped down and painted?" the answer is almost certainly no. You'd be very lucky to break even. On the other hand, if you mean "Is this bike nice enough to be worth the trouble to preserve?" I think the answer is yes, assuming the rust really is as superficial as you believe it to be.

This bike is a good candidate for powder coating in my opinion. Give it a bath in oxalic acid to kill the rust and take it someplace that knows how to powder coat bikes. Keep it the same shade of red it was originally -- that's a very iconic color for this particular bike. You should be able to get this done under $200, probably closer to $125. If you like decals, replacements are available for around $60.

This is a kind of basic 4130-ish steel frame, but that's actually something worth riding. Compare the cost of reviving this frame to the cost of a new Surly Pacer frame (which is also basic 4130 and a bit heavier than this one).
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Old 11-29-16, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
There is a lot of info on this if you dig enough. On the other Roadbike forum there is a thread that goes into detail on frames and tubesets.
Do you know what the link is to the thread that goes into detail on frames and tubesets?

Originally Posted by Andy_K View Post
On the other hand, if you mean "Is this bike nice enough to be worth the trouble to preserve?" I think the answer is yes, assuming the rust really is as superficial as you believe it to be.
Thats what my intent would be. To preserve an iconic bike, more for the experience and enjoyment of the project. Hopefully as I start into the project I won't find the rust to be worse than I thought.
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Old 11-29-16, 04:22 PM
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If I were in your shoes, I'd treat the rust spots, then prime them, then paint them. THEN ride the wheels off of that bike. Possibly get another cable guide brazed on.
Fwiw, I only have one bike that had rust issues and I did the afore mentioned. And it is my most fun to ride bike and the one I'll be racing in 2017.
Good luck.

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Old 11-29-16, 05:10 PM
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The way the rust on the bottom of the top tube is bubbling and flaking the paint scares me a little, as it looks like its coming from within - and if its bubbling the paint, an acid bath is likely not going to restore it back to former glory , ---- the rest looks superficial

Personally I wouldn't mess with it --- those are great bikes and I would love to have one in my collection, but I've seen corroded tubes like that fail before , -- thankfully nothing that resulted in a crash,
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Old 11-29-16, 07:10 PM
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What size is the bike?
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Old 11-29-16, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by AL7000 View Post
Do you know what the link is to the thread that goes into detail on frames and tubesets?



Thats what my intent would be. To preserve an iconic bike, more for the experience and enjoyment of the project. Hopefully as I start into the project I won't find the rust to be worse than I thought.
Roadbikereview.com thread titled "Some Specialized history" Also totally agree about preservation despite the tone of my first statements, these are special IMHO and well worth keeping them going, but yours could end up being a tough one, do it anyway just be prepared to literally pay the price. Make it so.
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Old 11-29-16, 09:27 PM
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Originally Posted by marius.suiram View Post
What size is the bike?
54 cm
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Old 04-10-17, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by AL7000 View Post

I am not sure what year the frame is. Serial number is: JS58411 (Its hard to read on the bottom bracket, but I think that is correct).

What is the year of this frame?
Hi AL7000,

I think your Specialized may be a Miyata built frame. If so the J in the serial number is for the year 1981.

In 1986 Specialized Allez model frames were being built by Giant of Taiwan.
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Old 04-11-17, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Hummer View Post
Hi AL7000,

I think your Specialized may be a Miyata built frame. If so the J in the serial number is for the year 1981.

In 1986 Specialized Allez model frames were being built by Giant of Taiwan.
Miyata, didn't introduce the 2nd alpha character to their serial number format until the 1985 model year. Also, the combination of pump peg and 2nd bottle boss didn't become popular until the mid-1980s. The 2nd generation Superbe Pro rear derailleur and 3rd generation Cyclone front derailleur weren't available in 1981. However, all the these features and components are consistent with a 1986 Allez SE, which is what the serial number indicates, despite it not being Giant's format. Obviously, SBI was dual sourcing, which was not uncommon.
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Old 04-11-17, 10:25 AM
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Dude, c'mon. If that actually weighs less than 22lbs it's got to be a high end frame. (Looks like another nail in Schwinn's coffin to me). IMHO high end 80's model Japanese bikes in good condition can easily fetch $300. But, considering the rust I'd lower my expectations considerably. You might have a better chance if you shoot for $200.
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Old 04-16-17, 10:45 AM
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@T-Mar, you are correct. I have done some more research and this cannot be a 1981 Allez SE or Miyata built.

The Allez SE model was not made in 1981 from my research.
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Old 04-26-17, 02:32 PM
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The Blue Allez SE pictured is a 1986 model year. They made the blue SE with Shimano 600 SIS, and the red SE with a Suntour/Specialized mixed group. They were made in Japan, and certainly could have actually been produced in 1985. This is all pretty clear, as the catalog spec pages are easy to find with the google. The bikes said "made in Japan" on them. The 1987 model year is when they went to Taiwan/Giant. I loosely knew Mark DiNucci in Portland in 1986, and talked with him right after he signed on with Specialized and just before he headed to Asia to work on the next generation. The one question that I have about the blue Allez SE's is who manufactured them? I have heard it was not Miyata at this point. Anyone know? Cheers
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Old 04-26-17, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by dgilber View Post
The Blue Allez SE pictured is a 1986 model year. They made the blue SE with Shimano 600 SIS, and the red SE with a Suntour/Specialized mixed group. They were made in Japan, and certainly could have actually been produced in 1985. This is all pretty clear, as the catalog spec pages are easy to find with the google. The bikes said "made in Japan" on them. The 1987 model year is when they went to Taiwan/Giant. I loosely knew Mark DiNucci in Portland in 1986, and talked with him right after he signed on with Specialized and just before he headed to Asia to work on the next generation. The one question that I have about the blue Allez SE's is who manufactured them? I have heard it was not Miyata at this point. Anyone know? Cheers
The 1986 Shimano New 600EX model was formally marketed as the Allez SE/SIS.
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