Value and Year of Specialized Allez SE?
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Value and Year of Specialized Allez SE?
Suntour shifters, I think they are Superbe but I'm not sure.
Shimano dropouts.
Dia-Compe brakes.
Front derailleur isn't labeled.
Rear derailleur just has an "S" on it.
Seatpost size: 27.2mm.
Bike weighs: 21.8 lbs.
Frameset weighs: 6 lbs 3 oz
Frame weighs: 4 lbs 9 oz.
Internally there is rust inside of the seat tube, however it is superficial and not heavy. I don't believe there is a lot of internal rust on the other tubes.
I am not sure what year the frame is. Serial number is: JS58411 (Its hard to read on the bottom bracket, but I think that is correct).
What is the year of this frame?
What is the value of this bike? And is it worth stripping the frame down and repainting?
Shimano dropouts.
Dia-Compe brakes.
Front derailleur isn't labeled.
Rear derailleur just has an "S" on it.
Seatpost size: 27.2mm.
Bike weighs: 21.8 lbs.
Frameset weighs: 6 lbs 3 oz
Frame weighs: 4 lbs 9 oz.
Internally there is rust inside of the seat tube, however it is superficial and not heavy. I don't believe there is a lot of internal rust on the other tubes.
I am not sure what year the frame is. Serial number is: JS58411 (Its hard to read on the bottom bracket, but I think that is correct).
What is the year of this frame?
What is the value of this bike? And is it worth stripping the frame down and repainting?
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No expert, but probably early 80's, unfortunately not much value aside from parts with the rust especially the cable guide being gone. That being said these were pretty nice bikes and if you can do the repaint yourself I would go for it. We need a good pic of the non driveside chainstay for better assessment.
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It is a 1986 model manufactured in October 1985, in Japan. The rear derailleur is SunTour Superbe Pro, while the front is SunTour Cyclone. Both are OEM spec. The tubeset is unspecified and marketing suggests a customized tubeset developed for SBI. Based on the post size, it is probably a derivation of Ishiwata 022. I'll defer to others on value.
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No expert, but probably early 80's, unfortunately not much value aside from parts with the rust especially the cable guide being gone. That being said these were pretty nice bikes and if you can do the repaint yourself I would go for it. We need a good pic of the non driveside chainstay for better assessment.
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Looks like the bike in American Flyers. Love that movie and love that bike.
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It is a 1986 model manufactured in October 1985, in Japan. The rear derailleur is SunTour Superbe Pro, while the front is SunTour Cyclone. Both are OEM spec. The tubeset is unspecified and marketing suggests a customized tubeset developed for SBI. Based on the post size, it is probably a derivation of Ishiwata 022. I'll defer to others on value.
What about the serial number points to the bike being manufactured in October 1985, in Japan with the model year being 1986?
What does SBI stand for?
The fork is stamped tange, does that change anything in regards to the frame being Ishiwata 022?
Thanks!
#7
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It'd make a decent low-guilt fixed gear conversion. That way you wouldn't care about the missing cable guide and you could add the Suntour stuff to your parts bin.
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Thank you! That answers one of the big questions I had about the bike. A couple more questions to increase my knowledge:
What about the serial number points to the bike being manufactured in October 1985, in Japan with the model year being 1986?
What does SBI stand for?
The fork is stamped tange, does that change anything in regards to the frame being Ishiwata 022?
Thanks!
What about the serial number points to the bike being manufactured in October 1985, in Japan with the model year being 1986?
What does SBI stand for?
The fork is stamped tange, does that change anything in regards to the frame being Ishiwata 022?
Thanks!
For interpreting the serial number, refer to the Specialized entry in my https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-vi...ber-guide.html .
A Tange fork would normally imply a Tange frame. However, all of Tange's double butted CrMo frames from this era used a double butted seat tube and a post of 26.6-26.8mm. The only exception was Tange Prestige which used a 27.2mm post and was heated treated. The SBI literature does not mention heat treating and this is not the type of feature that a marketer would pass up, so it's unlikely to be Tange Prestige. Consequently, it is either a custom Tange tube or an Ishiwata tubeset with a Tange fork. The latter is very rare but not unknown.
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Thank you! That answers one of the big questions I had about the bike. A couple more questions to increase my knowledge:
What about the serial number points to the bike being manufactured in October 1985, in Japan with the model year being 1986?
What does SBI stand for?
The fork is stamped tange, does that change anything in regards to the frame being Ishiwata 022?
Thanks!
What about the serial number points to the bike being manufactured in October 1985, in Japan with the model year being 1986?
What does SBI stand for?
The fork is stamped tange, does that change anything in regards to the frame being Ishiwata 022?
Thanks!
a lot of their own tubes and everything else as they had some serious braintrust working on this at all times. Some of the best in the business, Merz, DiNucci, Neenan and others were sent to Japan to coach and guide them into producing some of the best production frames up to that point, but one of the main things these guys talk about is not being sure who was doing what and when, brand of tubes, SBI spec or not etc. The bottom line is SBI and their Guru's had a serious impact on the framebuilding industry as a whole from the inside out with Panasonic, Miyata and many others benefiting greatly from it, not to mention that they were pulling the levers on their own destiny to the tune of good profits by controlling quality and production.
Last edited by merziac; 11-29-16 at 12:22 PM.
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The second question here is interesting. It depends on what you mean by "worth". If you mean "Would I be able to sell it for as much as it cost me to have it stripped down and painted?" the answer is almost certainly no. You'd be very lucky to break even. On the other hand, if you mean "Is this bike nice enough to be worth the trouble to preserve?" I think the answer is yes, assuming the rust really is as superficial as you believe it to be.
This bike is a good candidate for powder coating in my opinion. Give it a bath in oxalic acid to kill the rust and take it someplace that knows how to powder coat bikes. Keep it the same shade of red it was originally -- that's a very iconic color for this particular bike. You should be able to get this done under $200, probably closer to $125. If you like decals, replacements are available for around $60.
This is a kind of basic 4130-ish steel frame, but that's actually something worth riding. Compare the cost of reviving this frame to the cost of a new Surly Pacer frame (which is also basic 4130 and a bit heavier than this one).
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Thats what my intent would be. To preserve an iconic bike, more for the experience and enjoyment of the project. Hopefully as I start into the project I won't find the rust to be worse than I thought.
#12
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If I were in your shoes, I'd treat the rust spots, then prime them, then paint them. THEN ride the wheels off of that bike. Possibly get another cable guide brazed on.
Fwiw, I only have one bike that had rust issues and I did the afore mentioned. And it is my most fun to ride bike and the one I'll be racing in 2017.
Good luck.
Fwiw, I only have one bike that had rust issues and I did the afore mentioned. And it is my most fun to ride bike and the one I'll be racing in 2017.
Good luck.
Last edited by texaspandj; 11-29-16 at 04:26 PM.
#13
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The way the rust on the bottom of the top tube is bubbling and flaking the paint scares me a little, as it looks like its coming from within - and if its bubbling the paint, an acid bath is likely not going to restore it back to former glory , ---- the rest looks superficial
Personally I wouldn't mess with it --- those are great bikes and I would love to have one in my collection, but I've seen corroded tubes like that fail before , -- thankfully nothing that resulted in a crash,
Personally I wouldn't mess with it --- those are great bikes and I would love to have one in my collection, but I've seen corroded tubes like that fail before , -- thankfully nothing that resulted in a crash,
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Do you know what the link is to the thread that goes into detail on frames and tubesets?
Thats what my intent would be. To preserve an iconic bike, more for the experience and enjoyment of the project. Hopefully as I start into the project I won't find the rust to be worse than I thought.
Thats what my intent would be. To preserve an iconic bike, more for the experience and enjoyment of the project. Hopefully as I start into the project I won't find the rust to be worse than I thought.
#17
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I think your Specialized may be a Miyata built frame. If so the J in the serial number is for the year 1981.
In 1986 Specialized Allez model frames were being built by Giant of Taiwan.
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Miyata, didn't introduce the 2nd alpha character to their serial number format until the 1985 model year. Also, the combination of pump peg and 2nd bottle boss didn't become popular until the mid-1980s. The 2nd generation Superbe Pro rear derailleur and 3rd generation Cyclone front derailleur weren't available in 1981. However, all the these features and components are consistent with a 1986 Allez SE, which is what the serial number indicates, despite it not being Giant's format. Obviously, SBI was dual sourcing, which was not uncommon.
#19
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Dude, c'mon. If that actually weighs less than 22lbs it's got to be a high end frame. (Looks like another nail in Schwinn's coffin to me). IMHO high end 80's model Japanese bikes in good condition can easily fetch $300. But, considering the rust I'd lower my expectations considerably. You might have a better chance if you shoot for $200.
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The Blue Allez SE pictured is a 1986 model year. They made the blue SE with Shimano 600 SIS, and the red SE with a Suntour/Specialized mixed group. They were made in Japan, and certainly could have actually been produced in 1985. This is all pretty clear, as the catalog spec pages are easy to find with the google. The bikes said "made in Japan" on them. The 1987 model year is when they went to Taiwan/Giant. I loosely knew Mark DiNucci in Portland in 1986, and talked with him right after he signed on with Specialized and just before he headed to Asia to work on the next generation. The one question that I have about the blue Allez SE's is who manufactured them? I have heard it was not Miyata at this point. Anyone know? Cheers
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The Blue Allez SE pictured is a 1986 model year. They made the blue SE with Shimano 600 SIS, and the red SE with a Suntour/Specialized mixed group. They were made in Japan, and certainly could have actually been produced in 1985. This is all pretty clear, as the catalog spec pages are easy to find with the google. The bikes said "made in Japan" on them. The 1987 model year is when they went to Taiwan/Giant. I loosely knew Mark DiNucci in Portland in 1986, and talked with him right after he signed on with Specialized and just before he headed to Asia to work on the next generation. The one question that I have about the blue Allez SE's is who manufactured them? I have heard it was not Miyata at this point. Anyone know? Cheers
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