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Tommasini Diamante

Old 03-05-17, 07:59 PM
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Penbuy
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Tommasini Diamante

I'm interested in finding out the value of my Tommasini Diamante for purposes of setting an asking price. It is in very good condition. The derailleurs, crank set, seat post, wheels (GL330 for tubular tires), and hubs are Mavic. The frame is Columbus MS and measures 58 cm (c-t) with a 57 cm top tube. Any ideas on a price range would be appreciated. Thanks for your help.
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Old 03-06-17, 09:45 AM
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Beautiful bike! I believe Tommasini made the Diamante in MS tubing in the late '80s to early '90s, and then again much more recently. Do you know the vintage of yours? It looks to be in good to great shape, but the photos are too small to really tell for sure. More and larger photos would help a lot. Condition is going to make a huge difference -- a big part of the appeal of Tommasinis is in the quality of the finish work and paint, and if there are issues of corrosion, scrapes, dings, etc then it will hold the price down considerably.

Of course a lot of the value is going to be in the group set, and I have no idea how desirable and valuable the Mavic equipment is. Post some close up photos of the RD, cranks/FD, brakes, brifters, etc and you'll no doubt have the experts here weighing in.

I see Diamante's routinely listed for prices around $1800-2500, usually with top-of-the-line Campagnolo grouppos, but those are asking prices. I have no idea what the bikes actually sell for.
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Old 03-06-17, 10:05 AM
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That is beautiful!!! I agree we need more pics, some showing the different tube shapes would be great. Oddly I don't think we see many MS bikes.

Are the Brakes Modolo?
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Old 03-06-17, 09:56 PM
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Thanks for your replies. I will take some more pictures to try and show it off more. I itemized some of the components.

Bars Modolo x-ERAS
Brake Levers Diacompe
Brakes Modolo Professional
Cassette 7 speed
Crankset Mavic 172.5
Frame Columbus MS
Front Derailleur Mavic 870 (810 or SSC?)
Hubs Mavic Paris gao Dakar
Rear Derailleur Mavic 801 or 851?
Rims Mavic GL 330 Tubular
Saddle Rolls San Marco
Seatpost Mavic
Shifters Friction
Headset EDCO Competition

Though Iíve owned this bike for a few years now, I have not put much thought or effort into it. My story is this: Iíve only become interested in vintage road bikes over the past several years after being involved with old mountain bikes previously. I discovered this site, and others, as I realized with growing years I was riding my road bike almost all the time. This bike I happened across on consignment at a local bike shop while checking out an old Fat Chance mountain bike. Over time I kept thinking about it and two others there and did enough research to know they were pretty reasonably priced. So I eventually went back and bought them all with the feeling of investing for my future in the hobby. The other two bikes included a Motta Personal 2001R and a Tommaso brand bike from 10 speed imports. I have kept putting off learning about tubular tires and being intimidated by how great of condition this bike is in so it sits while the Tommaso and a Triumph Gran Course are ridden. Also, I have found myself with not that much room left in the garage so Iíve decided to let go some of my hobby items including this bike. I canít get over how much accumulating I done, particularly with regard to mountain bike frames and components.

The shop owner told me he built it up for the buyer originally and used as many Mavic parts to be in sync with the SST Concorde paint scheme.

Thanks again and I will try and get better pictures soon.
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Old 03-06-17, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Penbuy View Post
Thanks for your replies. I will take some more pictures to try and show it off more. I itemized some of the components.

Bars Modolo x-ERAS
Brake Levers Diacompe
Brakes Modolo Professional
Cassette 7 speed
Crankset Mavic 172.5
Frame Columbus MS
Front Derailleur Mavic 870 (810 or SSC?)
Hubs Mavic Paris gao Dakar
Rear Derailleur Mavic 801 or 851?
Rims Mavic GL 330 Tubular
Saddle Rolls San Marco
Seatpost Mavic
Shifters Friction
Headset EDCO Competition

Though Iíve owned this bike for a few years now, I have not put much thought or effort into it. My story is this: Iíve only become interested in vintage road bikes over the past several years after being involved with old mountain bikes previously. I discovered this site, and others, as I realized with growing years I was riding my road bike almost all the time. This bike I happened across on consignment at a local bike shop while checking out an old Fat Chance mountain bike. Over time I kept thinking about it and two others there and did enough research to know they were pretty reasonably priced. So I eventually went back and bought them all with the feeling of investing for my future in the hobby. The other two bikes included a Motta Personal 2001R and a Tommaso brand bike from 10 speed imports. I have kept putting off learning about tubular tires and being intimidated by how great of condition this bike is in so it sits while the Tommaso and a Triumph Gran Course are ridden. Also, I have found myself with not that much room left in the garage so Iíve decided to let go some of my hobby items including this bike. I canít get over how much accumulating I done, particularly with regard to mountain bike frames and components.

The shop owner told me he built it up for the buyer originally and used as many Mavic parts to be in sync with the SST Concorde paint scheme.

Thanks again and I will try and get better pictures soon.
Cool story -- sounds like you hit the road bike jackpot. I don't see many Mavic parts on C&V bikes, aside from wheelsets, so I'm looking forward to the photos. What kind of friction shifters do you have? Velobase.com is a great site for components -- here's the page for the Mavic 801 RD and here's the Mavic 851. My take is this is a Frankenbike build that will hold down the price of the whole bike, and you'll likely get the most $ by parting it out. Or you could give those tubulars a try, and maybe you'll decide to keep it!

Have you posted photos of the Tommaso and Mota Personal here? We'd love to see 'em.
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Old 03-07-17, 06:36 PM
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Thanks for the additional note Kevindale. I expect that you may be right regarding the highest value in parts, though I'd be reluctant to do so. Thanks for the links I'll follow them up. I took some more pictures today.
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Old 03-07-17, 06:37 PM
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Old 03-07-17, 11:12 PM
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That is a beautiful bike. You really should try and ride it. I personally love tubulars, although they can be a bit messy at times. I don't know much about Motta but this bike is likely twice the bike the Tomasso is, so I would keep it. Have your tried to see if you can run the wheels from one of the other bikes on this?
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Old 03-07-17, 11:28 PM
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Those look like Simplex Retrofriction shifters, which I have, and love. It looks like the bike is in fantastic shape, with a really interesting (and to my eyes, unusual) mix of components. I'm sure it would be more valuable with a complete Campagnolo grouppo, but since for many years Tommasini's came over to the states as frame sets, you see a lot of different components.

I don't see any fleaBay sold listings for Diamantes, though there are two on there now you can compare to. Of course the 'Buy it now' asking price doesn't mean anything unless it sells.

There are a few members here who own or have owned Diamantes -- hopefully they'll weigh in. Maybe post it in the 'Tommasini Lounge' thread so they'll see it. I can only guess what you should list it for, since I can't find any comparable bikes that have sold. Your best price will likely be on the 'Bay, though you'll have to deal with packing and shipping. If you're in a decent sized city you can try Craigslist, and I'd also pay a small fee for a premium membership here and list it in the marketplace thread. There are definitely a fair number of Tommasini lovers around here, though I'm not sure how many check the appraisals thread.
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Old 03-07-17, 11:29 PM
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Originally Posted by bianchigirll View Post
that is a beautiful bike. You really should try and ride it. I personally love tubulars, although they can be a bit messy at times. I don't know much about motta but this bike is likely twice the bike the tomasso is, so i would keep it. Have your tried to see if you can run the wheels from one of the other bikes on this?
+1
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Old 03-09-17, 07:37 PM
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Thanks Bianchigirl and Kevindale for you time and responses. I appreciate your advice and I may hold off for a bit, but I just don't know if I will make it to the connoisseur status to appreciate the bike and I have a hard time putting on the road when I think about its condition. I would like someone to have it that would appreciate it. We will see how it pans out. I know someone in town with some pretty exquisite vintage mountain bikes who may be interested in a trade. If not, I expect I will look to the Bikeforum sales forum.

Thanks again.
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Old 03-09-17, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Penbuy View Post
Thanks Bianchigirl and Kevindale for you time and responses. I appreciate your advice and I may hold off for a bit, but I just don't know if I will make it to the connoisseur status to appreciate the bike and I have a hard time putting on the road when I think about its condition. I would like someone to have it that would appreciate it. We will see how it pans out. I know someone in town with some pretty exquisite vintage mountain bikes who may be interested in a trade. If not, I expect I will look to the Bikeforum sales forum.

Thanks again.
It has to be a next level MTB to even come close to the Tommasini's value--- meaning like very early run Tom Ritchey's , Chris Chance,s Yeti's from the FTW era and the like--- don't settle for less
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Old 03-10-17, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DMC707 View Post
It has to be a next level MTB to even come close to the Tommasini's value--- meaning like very early run Tom Ritchey's , Chris Chance,s Yeti's from the FTW era and the like--- don't settle for less
I agree (in general, that is -- I know nothing of the value of vintage/classic MTBs). This is a beautiful and highly desirable road bike. It's my size, and if I weren't already testing my wife's patience with bikes I'd be putting out feelers to you.
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Old 03-10-17, 10:09 AM
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I have records indicating that the Diamante goes back to at least 1988, which is also the oldest confirmed year that I have for Ciolumbus MS. The colour scheme of the OP's bicycle is called Magniflex. It was available in at least 1990 (sky blue & white only) and 1991 (when a red version was added).

Magniflex was an Italian mattress manufacturer who sponsored many pro teams in the 1970s & 1980s. This suggests the possibility that Tommasini supplied bicycles to a Magniflex sponsored team circa 1990. The closest Magniflex sponsored team that I found was a 1989, Swiss based team, but extant photos show they riding Look.
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Old 03-10-17, 06:26 PM
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So T-Mar is that color scheme that same as their trade mark ticking?
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Old 03-11-17, 06:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Bianchigirll View Post
So T-Mar is that color scheme that same as their trade mark ticking?

You'll have to provide further clarification and preferably photos. I have no idea what you mean by "their trade mark ticking".
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Old 03-11-17, 10:53 AM
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******...$8 bones. Not sure I like the starfish crank, but cool bike overall and a little different with the set-up
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Old 03-11-17, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
You'll have to provide further clarification and preferably photos. I have no idea what you mean by "their trade mark ticking".
'Ticking' is a fabric weave designed to keep down/feathers from poking through. My grandmother have 'feather ticks' on the spare beds that we slept on -- feather filled thin mattresses with a heavy cotton weave fabric. I think BG was being a little cheeky.

I have a question for you - I understand that MS tubing didn't catch on, but it seemed pretty innovative. How is the MS tubing ride considered to compare to other Columbus tubing? How desirable is this tube set?
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Old 03-11-17, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevindale View Post
...I have a question for you - I understand that MS tubing didn't catch on, but it seemed pretty innovative. How is the MS tubing ride considered to compare to other Columbus tubing? How desirable is this tube set?
That's really difficult to answer without having long term exposure to a MS frame with the same geometry as say, an SLX or SL frame. My subjective opinion, based on one short term experience with an MS frame, is that it had notably decreased lateral flex at the bottom bracket. That was easily determined by a set of sprints. Without a long term test, it's hard to make an informed opinion on other characteristics, like vertical compliance.

However, I have seen flex measurements for MS frames stating that they are both laterally and vertically stiffer than SLX. Curiously, the increase in vertical stiffness was more than the lateral increase. My understanding, is that this was the opposite of what Columbus and Gilco intended. The focus was increased lateral stiffness, while maintaining vertical compliance, all at weight less than SLX.

As you've noted, MS does not seem to have caught on. Many brands never offered an MS frame and many pro teams seemed to prefer SLX or TSX. MS certainly had some quirks. The cycling fraternity is notoriously traditional and the non-round tubes offended the sensibility of many. They also required a dedicated lug set, which provided less real estate for trademark cutouts, though Tommasini got around this by brazing raised T's behind the MS head lugs. It also required a very small seat post, around 25.0mm, IIRC. This severely limited choices in a high grade post, though Campagnolo issued a special post, just for MS. Of course, it cost more too. In 1990 a Tommasini Diamante frameset was $125 US more than a Super Prestige.

I believe that lack of acceptance of MS by the consumer was a reflection of it's lack of acceptance in the pro peloton, combined with the non-traditional shapes and increased costs. Desirability is a personal matter. While innovative, the tube shapes are probably more of a curiosity for most C&V buyers. They may appeal to some but the majority woild probably prefer more traditional SLX or TSX. Personally, I wouldn't pay a premium for MS over SLX.
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Old 03-11-17, 02:17 PM
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Thanks, that's really helpful, and interesting. I suspect if one major pro had won a big race or two with MS tubing, things might have played out differently.
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Old 03-12-17, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Kevindale View Post
'Ticking' is a fabric weave designed to keep down/feathers from poking through. My grandmother have 'feather ticks' on the spare beds that we slept on -- feather filled thin mattresses with a heavy cotton weave fabric. I think BG was being a little cheeky.

I have a question for you - I understand that MS tubing didn't catch on, but it seemed pretty innovative. How is the MS tubing ride considered to compare to other Columbus tubing? How desirable is this tube set?
Thanks and yes I was.

Too bad that tube set didn't catch on, I never rode one but thought it was a great idea. Maybe the development of the Nivachrome tube sets like EL, EL OS and even Mini MAX, although that even seemed very short lived too, hastened it demise.
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Old 03-12-17, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Kevindale View Post
...I think BG was being a little cheeky.
Thanks and yes I was.

Originally Posted by Binchigirll View Post
Too bad that tube set didn't catch on, I never rode one but thought it was a great idea. Maybe the development of the Nivachrome tube sets like EL, EL OS and even Mini MAX, although that even seemed very short lived too, hastened it demise.
Well, you never can tell with those celeste divas!

I don't think that any of the those tubesets had an impact on MS sales. MS seemed to have problems gaining acceptance right from the start.
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