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John Howard by Dave Moulton

Old 06-06-17, 09:17 PM
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cb400bill
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John Howard by Dave Moulton

A friend was asking me how much his John Howard may be worth. Mostly Campy, with Modelo brakes. He's owned it since new, about 1984. 57 cm frame. New bar tape and tires will be installed. Has small amount of paint bubbling on bottom of top tube (not shown). Here are some quick shots that I took. Of course better pics would be used.

I'm thinking around $750-800. thoughts?







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Old 06-06-17, 09:25 PM
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No clue on the value, but want to say it's a beaut and I love the color.

My FIL owned a custom Moulton frame when he was a younger man. In unusual circumstances he left it in his car overnight at his gated condo and someone yoinked it out of the back of his car. Insurance company paid out the bike 2x what he paid for it 20yrs prior.
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Old 06-06-17, 10:15 PM
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Exquisite frame, mishmash of parts. I think you're right about there on the valuation.

Full NR/SR we're probably talking $1000-1200. That frame - excepting a little paint bubbling under the top tube - is in superb shape.

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Old 06-06-17, 10:33 PM
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Great color. Too bad too big. Fortunate actually.
These are undervalued at present.
Good build spec, but everybody wants full Campagnolo ...
$1200 would be obtained only by a bidding duel.
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Old 06-07-17, 06:49 AM
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Is it stamped 57, looks a little bigger--still a beautiful looking bike. I think your 800 call is about right, maybe another 100-200 on ebay with patience + the cuts thereof. Many of the recent Dave Moulton sales have been best offer accepted so hard to tell exactly on sales comps--there was a March 1200 fuso sale, kind of an outlier though. To pull 1200 off for any Moulton bike is not easy these days but if there is a frame to do so, generally it will probably be these John Howard(s) if he wants to test the market.

The John Howard(s) are not as well known but to the Moulton fan they are valued a bit to a great bit more as long as produced by Moulton (that one appears to have the DM lettering) vs Dave Tesch, so ebay is what this one needs. Unless you are in West Coast local sale of this would be pretty tough for its value. Moulton indicated that he considered the JH some of the best frames he ever made, see his quote below (blog link).

When I left Masi and opened my own shop in 1983, I was competing head on with Masi. My new John Howard frame had to be as finely finished as a Masi, or even exceed it. ............It is why I took it down a notch with the Fuso and later the Recherche. These were frames that were built straight, rode and handled exactly the same as the finely finished custom frames and the John Howard. But these were a reasonably priced bike that one could ride and enjoy.

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Old 06-07-17, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
Great color. Too bad too big. Fortunate actually.
These are undervalued at present.
Good build spec, but everybody wants full Campagnolo ...
$1200 would be obtained only by a bidding duel.
+1

I think it depends on how he sells it, but that seems high to me. Howard isn't especially desirable, he has the Medici background, as well as the hair bandit record, and it's somewhat a parts mish mosh. The seatpost isn't doing it any favors IMO. I guess it's possible you might get $700-$800, but I think lower. $500ish seems right?

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Old 06-07-17, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by KonAaron Snake View Post
+1

I think it depends on how he sells it, but that seems high to me. Howard isn't especially desirable, he has the Medici background, as well as the hair bandit record, and it's somewhat a parts mish mosh. The seatpost isn't doing it any favors IMO. I guess it's possible you might get $700-$800, but I think lower. $500ish seems right?
I think there are too many bicycle Howard's to track-

John Howard was a nationally well known amateur racer in the 70's who won a few National Senior road championships, rode for the Century Road Club of America, Team Raleigh, rode the Milk Race, later won an Ironman in Hawaii. Well known for his quote "52t chainrings just don't cut it".

Mike Howard was a partner in Wizard cycles, Masi Carlsbad employee, then Medici partner until caught, tried, convicted and served his sentence for a hair fetish. Later created the 35th anniversary Wizard frames painted by Brian Baylis, not sure of the number actually made.
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Old 06-07-17, 09:15 AM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
I think there are too many bicycle Howard's to track-

John Howard was a nationally well known amateur racer in the 70's who won a few National Senior road championships, rode for the Century Road Club of America, Team Raleigh, rode the Milk Race, later won an Ironman in Hawaii. Well known for his quote "52t chainrings just don't cut it".

Mike Howard was a partner in Wizard cycles, Masi Carlsbad employee, then Medici partner until caught, tried, convicted and served his sentence for a hair fetish. Later created the 35th anniversary Wizard frames painted by Brian Baylis, not sure of the number actually made.
I confused my Howards!

Thanks rep.
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Old 06-07-17, 09:54 AM
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Beautiful. I love that color. It looks a little bigger than 57 to me.
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Old 06-07-17, 10:28 AM
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Can you put up the serial number?
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Old 06-07-17, 12:20 PM
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Nice. I think you're definitely in the ballpark with your original pricing estimate. Have bought and sold a couple of very nice Moultons in the past few years, including an FRX, and would say that the Howards are in the same general prices. Possibly more nuanced frame building, but not a well known name. Despite JH having held the world land speed record for bicycles.

As a collector's piece, agreed that it's being held back by the parts mix. Cost of a really nice set of Campagnolo brakes and good brake levers with good hoods would probably be close to any premium the bike would bring as a result. And it still needs an appropriate seatpost. On the other hand, if a potential buyer already had those parts on hand...

Would be worth making sure the rust on the bottom side of the top tube is not serious- that's a personal potential red flag for me when buying a bike as I've seen first hand how bad it can be.
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Old 06-07-17, 09:32 PM
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John Howard also once held the bicycle speed record, set aboard the Pepsi Challenger in 1985. He also was a member of the US Olympic Team in '68, '72 and '76

To this day I don't thing Big John ever really got his due. IMHO, he was a pillar of US racing in the early to mid-70s.
A guy I'd love to ride a few miles with.

DD
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Old 06-08-17, 02:09 PM
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Hair fetish?
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Old 06-08-17, 08:01 PM
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Yeah. Look up Mike Howard-Medici on the interwebs to read the entire, sad, story.
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Old 06-08-17, 08:19 PM
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'Hair Bandit' Gets 8 Years in Prison - latimes
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Old 06-09-17, 10:32 PM
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+1 totally agree with this based on my limited knowledge. I think he qualifies for one of the hardest working guys in cycling and is still at it today. Recently helped set the womens bicycle speed record.


Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
John Howard also once held the bicycle speed record, set aboard the Pepsi Challenger in 1985. He also was a member of the US Olympic Team in '68, '72 and '76

To this day I don't thing Big John ever really got his due. IMHO, he was a pillar of US racing in the early to mid-70s.
A guy I'd love to ride a few miles with.

DD
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