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Help identifying... Cinelli?

Old 07-05-17, 07:08 PM
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Zumkopf
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Bikes: 1970 Peugeot PX-10E, 1971 Gitane Tour de France, 1976 MKM, 1980 Holdsworth Mistral, 1984 Woodrup Giro Touring, 1985(?) Bianchi Stelvio, 1987 Bianchi Brava, 1989 Schwinn (Waterford) Paramount, 1994 Trek 1400

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Help identifying... Cinelli?

I've come into a 22" frame, and can't positively identify who made it or its model, as it is a total (blank) repaint.

There is no headset, and the Sugino bottom bracket looks newer than the rest of the bike. [The crankset in the first picture is also surely not the original.] Huret bottom bracket cable guide clampon, no telling if it was original. Looks like 73/73 geometry.

The only identifying labels are a few Reynolds 531 stickers that are badly mismatched in height, so probably put on by the re-painter. However, I'm pretty sure it is 531; the tubes ring clearly but a bit deader towards the ends, the sloped crown was not used on cheap frames, and the dropouts are Campagnolo. The head and seat lugs are fairly simple, the bottom bracket even simpler. "3932" is stamped on the underside of the BB. The fastback seatstay style and the sloped crown fork suggest Cinelli to me, but I defer to the experts. One unusual touch -- the braze-on lug to keep the downtube shifters from sliding down is brazed on the underside of the down tube, not the top. Very long threading on the steerer. A few pictures follow.

Suggestions as to identification? Thanks for any replies.

Zumkopf
'70 Peugeot PX-10E
'71 Gitane TdF
'80 Holdsworth Mistral
'83 Woodrup Giro
'87 Bianchi Brava
'89 Waterford Paramount
and the mystery frame



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Old 07-05-17, 07:50 PM
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Definitely not an '89 Paramount, those did not have rear eyelets.

No built in BB cable guides looks like '70s to me.
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Old 07-05-17, 10:41 PM
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Drillium Dude 
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Nice score there.

There's something veddy British about that one. I wonder if it was a small custom builder (the seat cluster doesn't look like anything in volume production in the early-to-mid-70s, which is what I'm guessing it is). Whatever it is, it looks quality.

Surely not a Cinelli. Sorry

Someone will be along shortly with a definitive answer.

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Old 07-05-17, 11:06 PM
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repechage
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99 and 44/100ths percent British.
I have seen those headlugs on
Bob Jackson
Witcomb
MKM

The bottom bracket shell guides me to MKM,
The "fastback" seat stays suggest it could be that too.
Fork crown could be any of the above three as well.
Alternately, could be from another small builder or even a hobby builder.
I would reference MKM for similar attributes to compare.
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Old 07-05-17, 11:40 PM
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juvela
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-----

Why on earth anyone would suggest this is a Cinelli is beyond me.

This Prugnat lugset was widely employed by Holdsworthy, but as noted above it was also seen on the products of other British manufacturers. One clue here is the rapier chainstays. These are not all that common and may be helpful in narrowing down the possibilities. The full sloping crown appears it may be from the Harrington foundry.

-----
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Old 07-06-17, 04:32 AM
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T-Mar
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The Reynolds decals remnants, if OEM, indicate 1974-1977, and possibly a year to two newer depending on the size depending on the amount of stock carried and stock rotation practices. Mid-1970s is consistent with the dropout style and lack of braze-ons. By 1978 Camapagnolo had introduced the Portacatena dropouts and nearly all the higher end builders were using braze-ons for bottles and shift levers.

While the bottom bracket cup markings are not fully visible, it looks the threading standard starts with "1." which would indicate English threading and eliminate the Italian and French manufacturers.

As noted by repechage, the characteristics are reminiscent of MKM, as is the serial number format which, if MKM, would indicate 1976.
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Old 07-06-17, 10:35 AM
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Zumkopf
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Bikes: 1970 Peugeot PX-10E, 1971 Gitane Tour de France, 1976 MKM, 1980 Holdsworth Mistral, 1984 Woodrup Giro Touring, 1985(?) Bianchi Stelvio, 1987 Bianchi Brava, 1989 Schwinn (Waterford) Paramount, 1994 Trek 1400

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I knew I came to the right place. MKM seems like it.

The mystery frame appears to closely match the one in the MKM "gallery" labeled "Wes Mason." [I'm pretty certain that this page from the Forum shows the exact same frame, in Lostarchitecht's possession as of 2014.] The only difference is the seat tube-top tube lug, but it's clear from the ad on this page and from this picture that MKM did use the exact same fastback lug as my frame (though on that one the fork is different). The ad also mentions the underside downtube lug, which I would say pretty much cinches the ID. The ad on this page on the MKM site shows two frames that look virtually identical as well, though not much detail can be seen. MKM's numbering page would place the date as 1976 or 1977.

I had never heard of MKM before. I am grateful for the accumulated experience of the Forum.
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