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What would you value these at?

Old 08-06-17, 08:32 PM
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What would you value these at?

Full disclosure: These sat unridden and out of the sunlight for over 35-40 years, in an extremely climate controlled environment and were well-greased before being put up, so I'm assuming seat post and stem are OK. No visible signs of rust, the owner was an extremely meticulous person and regularly cleaned and maintenanced before putting them up. I received a rattle-can of paint to match the Cinelli and missing bits from the Masi also although the paint seems perfect, aside from one small topcoat rub on the NDS seat tube top.

Curious to hear as-is and once-restored pricing thoughts?

Click the pics for way larger versions here:

Masi: Masi Gran Criterium - Album on Imgur

Cinelli: Cinelli SC - Album on Imgur

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Old 08-06-17, 09:03 PM
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...I noticed that Masi came out of a shop in Menlo Park. No idea on the value, but they sure don't look like they got ridden much.
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Old 08-06-17, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...I noticed that Masi came out of a shop in Menlo Park. No idea on the value, but they sure don't look like they got ridden much.
Original owner lived in the bay area until he moved east in the 70s. I believe both bikes were bought out there, albeit at different shops. Sounded like he bought the Cinelli first, Masi next, but I can't fully remember. Talked to him for the better part of an hour on everything from cycling to fly fishing.

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Old 08-06-17, 09:39 PM
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If you drop the fork on the Masi there most likely will be a date code, most serious buyers would want to know.
The details on the bike are transitional, that is why.

The Cinelli is interesting too. Very late for fender eyelets, leave the hot rodded Universals alone.

The small sizes will limit the market if you are not willing to ship overseas. (Asia) no freight forwarders, play it straight up, the serious and above board there know the drill.

They will fetch handsome prices at auction, I would expect over $2k each.
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Old 08-06-17, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by francophile View Post
Original owner lived in the bay area until he moved east in the 70s. I believe both bikes were bought out there, albeit at different shops. Sounded like he bought the Cinelli first, Masi next, but I can't fully remember. Talked to him for the better part of an hour on everything from cycling to fly fishing.
I think the Masi is older.
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Old 08-06-17, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post
If you drop the fork on the Masi there most likely will be a date code, most serious buyers would want to know ... I think the Masi is older.
It's entirely possible Masi came first, I wasn't following him well, we talked about a lot. RD date code '70, crankset no date code.

The Masi appears to be ridden more, albeit both hardly ridden at all. That would also fit the timeline.
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Old 08-06-17, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by repechage View Post

The Cinelli is interesting too. Very late for fender eyelets, leave the hot rodded Universals alone.
Seller specifically told me he asked for the Universals at the shop because he'd read in a well-known mag at the time they were the best centerpulls on the market and he wanted the best on his bike.
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Old 08-06-17, 09:53 PM
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According to the Bob Hovey Masi site, the head badge on the GC is the first type and places it as 1970-'71. I agree with repechage; $2k should be do-able if well presented and widely advertised. Personally, I would do NO restoration other than new bar tape maybe if I were planning to sell them; just put all of the parts back on and make sure everything is spotless and functioning correctly.
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Old 08-06-17, 09:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Kactus View Post
According to the Bob Hovey Masi site, the head badge on the GC is the first type and places it as 1970-'71. I agree with repechage; $2k should be do-able if well presented and widely advertised. Personally, I would do NO restoration other than new bar tape maybe if I were planning to sell them; just put all of the parts back on and make sure everything is spotless and functioning correctly.
Therein lie the rub. The original crankset was a 177.5 on this tiny little bike, so I'm not sure it would add much value to the bike, if nothing else I think it would detract. Owner tossed in a 165 crankset NIB (no date code) with receipt (dated 1974) which he intended to put on the bike to finally ride it but never did. Also tossed in a NIB Campy record brakeset, but that's another story.

Note the cardboard retainers are still on the calipers, if this is any indication how much riding was done and/or how well stored they were.
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Old 08-06-17, 10:39 PM
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Originally Posted by francophile View Post
Original owner lived in the bay area until he moved east in the 70s. I believe both bikes were bought out there, albeit at different shops. Sounded like he bought the Cinelli first, Masi next, but I can't fully remember. Talked to him for the better part of an hour on everything from cycling to fly fishing.
...a lot of the Cinelli's from that era that got sold here went through Spence Wolf's shop. If the spokes are tied and soldered, that's a good indicator that this was one of them.
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Old 08-06-17, 10:43 PM
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Originally Posted by francophile View Post
Therein lie the rub. The original crankset was a 177.5 on this tiny little bike, so I'm not sure it would add much value to the bike, if nothing else I think it would detract. Owner tossed in a 165 crankset NIB (no date code) with receipt (dated 1974) which he intended to put on the bike to finally ride it but never did.
Considering the size of the bike, I think the 165 would be more appropriate. You can always sell the 177.5 cranks seperate.
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Old 08-07-17, 12:25 AM
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Man, what a pair of beauties! They are so small I almost thought they were junior road bikes for a second there.

If those are both wearing original paint - and I suspect they are - then they're worth some serious coin in Asia. Smaller bikes have always sold for big bucks there, or at least they did when I was active on Ebay.

Such beautiful details on the Masi (still can't get all the pics to load on the Cinelli album). Too bad they're too small - I'd have been almost upset to find two bikes that rare, in that kind of shape and not be able to take them for a serious spin

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Old 08-07-17, 07:45 AM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
...a lot of the Cinelli's from that era that got sold here went through Spence Wolf's shop. If the spokes are tied and soldered, that's a good indicator that this was one of them.
Thanks for this tidbit @3alarmer - Rear spokes on the Cinelli are tied and soldered, but there's more...

I have a couple of receipts for with some of the NIB xtras that came with it, he mentioned he'd moved around a few different places. One of them is from Cupertino Bike Shop, and that was Mr. Wolf's shop...

Some pics.





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Old 08-07-17, 07:59 AM
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The size might be a limiting factor, but...a 70s Cinelli in that condition usually goes 2500ish+.

I don't know Masi well enough to offer an opinion.
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Old 08-07-17, 10:47 AM
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-----

wrt the receipts -

On the Cupertino Bike Shop one the 1974 date places it near the end of the time it was located on Randy Lane. In about 1975-76 Spence moved the shop to Pacific Grove on the Monterey Peninsula. It was only at this second location for three to four years before he moved again. The Randy Lane location was interesting. It was contained in a small 1950's era house on a residential street. Through some zoning quirk or exception it was legal to do a retail operation there. His Cinelli agency went back to the 1950's. Did an overhaul for a customer on one of his Cinellis that he had assembled in 1959.

-----
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Old 08-07-17, 04:18 PM
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AAaacccck-I hate and love posts like this. Seeing my size and the yen to ride them put me into the futile relhm. Thank you for the pics <3 <3 <3
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Old 08-07-17, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by juls View Post
AAaacccck-I hate and love posts like this. Seeing my size and the yen to ride them put me into the futile relhm. Thank you for the pics <3 <3 <3
I can one-up this: try actually having them in your possession and not being able to ride them

My only hope is I can either trade for something equally pricy that fits, or sell and buy something that fits.

There are just few bikes out there I'd trade for without some cash changing hands as well. Although some, like @Drillium Dude's Sparrow would be really tempting
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Old 08-09-17, 02:21 PM
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I hear ya. smaller you can at least test ride/larger-not a prayer. Love the post for posterity.
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Old 08-09-17, 11:58 PM
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Originally Posted by francophile View Post
My only hope is I can either trade for something equally pricy that fits, or sell and buy something that fits.

There are just few bikes out there I'd trade for without some cash changing hands as well. Although some, like @Drillium Dude's Sparrow would be really tempting
I really don't want to +1 at this stage in my life, but trade? A rider for a non-rider with history? Hmmm...maybe we should talk

Not that the Sparrow doesn't have history, it's just not as extensive

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Old 08-10-17, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude View Post
I really don't want to +1 at this stage in my life, but trade? A rider for a non-rider with history? Hmmm...maybe we should talk

Not that the Sparrow doesn't have history, it's just not as extensive
History != value though, there's innate value in your Sparrow in that it's rare as hens teeth with a sub-10yr production from a guy who apparently built a lot of touring frames? I was tempted to buy the Sparrow when you listed last year... but funds just weren't there at the time. In case this thread triggers interest, come see me before you sell

On the transaction/valuation front, I honestly believed my purchase offer was within 20-40% shy of correct value (my usual target), and numbers above approximately confirmed that. There's a big dealer south of me I was referred to but I haven't contacted yet. Another seller I sometimes cooperate with suggested w/o cleanup, based on how they're equipped and looking straight out of the 70s, he thinks they'll catch a collectors eye and settle out ~$5.5k or higher. His minimum take is 15% which is cheaper than local shop consignment and if it's no hassle and insured for me, considering it strongly.

I shared pics with a close friend on Tuesday, he showed to one of the guys he works with (doctor) who then offered his convertible Honda S2000 (manual, 35k miles, silver w/red leather interior) for both bikes but I'm not entirely sure how serious it was. Sounds like a stretch, but maybe doctors just have that much to throw away? It'd be easier and less guilt-ridden to sell the S2000 for more money

Anyway, on trades, being on opposite coasts complicates us trading outside of cross-shipping. I'm leery of shipping bikes so pristine and I seem to recall (wasn't that you?) had a bad experience shipping overseas to Japan? Whoever it was, that's the main reason I'm glancing past the mentions upstairs to ship to CN/JP above. The risk isn't worth a few extra C-notes. I'm batting 2 for 3 damaged on bikes shipped to me from eBay, UPS/Fedex are absolutely brutal in ATL.

If nothing else, if/when these sell I may just come back with $$ in hand and try to talk you out of that Sparrow

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Old 08-10-17, 03:38 PM
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Sounds like you have several options... a good dilemma to have! To me, the big C&V dealer near you sounds like a great option; your liabilities and effort is minimal and the upside sound very good.
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Old 08-10-17, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Kactus View Post
Sounds like you have several options... a good dilemma to have! To me, the big C&V dealer near you sounds like a great option; your liabilities and effort is minimal and the upside sound very good.
Agreed. Will need to see what happens. For every option I'm also getting a wildly variable opinion on value.
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Old 08-11-17, 01:43 PM
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Hail Mary them on eBay. That's helps to take the sting away.

Probably $2K plus each.

eBay 'Buy Now' $2499 free shipping insured. You'll walk with over $2k each.
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Old 08-11-17, 02:46 PM
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FWIW...I could see that Cinelli going over 3k with the right bidders. There is some variability with the pricier stuff, but I think 2500 is really the floor here.
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