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Actual Alan or...???

Old 09-03-17, 07:49 AM
  #1  
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Actual Alan or...???

A local man has a bike that he bought to flip and so doesn't know the history. It is an Alan, unknown model. I haven't been able to get to see it yet in person, only in photos.

I know that Alan made custom frames and also frames for other companies so I could encounter a frame with almost any combination of components.

It has Sakai custom Japan Road Champion handle bars, Modolo Speedy brakes, Campagnolo derailers. On the bottom of the frame....made in Italy 56 x 56.

I would have expected 3T or similar handlebars which would have better complemented the other components but I know that old bikes have had many owners and people do modify their bikes.

I note that it doesn't have any stickers and that bothered me, the only Alan frames I have seen had them on the down tube and seat tube so i wondered if it was a re-paint, which might hide old damage.

Any thoughts on what I should look for when I go?


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Old 09-03-17, 11:27 AM
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Hard to tell, from the pictures offered, it looks like an ALAN to me even without stickers. Have a look at my bike and try to remember frame set features when you go to look at the one presented.

My ALAN came without stickers, also. Perhaps more accurate to say that there was no evidence, on the frame set, "as found", to suggest that there ever were any decals or stickers...

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Old 09-03-17, 12:28 PM
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Randy

I read your story before about getting that Alan from a load of recovered stolen bikes but please don't say you found an Alan in the Thunder Bay dump!!! It's about a 16 hour drive (without breaks) from where I live but it might just be worth it to see that dump...

I love what you post, nice to see people who are willing to rescue what others turn their noses up at.

Seriously, from what I have seen, I like this bike, something just seemed "off' to my untrained eye and at $440 Canadian I didn't want to find out that someone put an Alan head badge on some other brand.

I just looked again at your story about the recovered stolen Alan and your note that "The first thing that one notices, upon close inspection of the ALAN's frame set is the intricate scroll work, etched into the head tube lugs". I went back and compared your photo to my photo and bang on! Looks to me like same scroll work.

I think I will buy it as I really like the components and if it isn't an Alan I could use some on some of them other "forgotten" bikes I have but I guess it will come down to me when i see it in person.

Thanks again
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Old 09-03-17, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by WGB View Post
A local man has a bike that he bought to flip and so doesn't know the history. It is an Alan, unknown model. I haven't been able to get to see it yet in person, only in photos.

I know that Alan made custom frames and also frames for other companies so I could encounter a frame with almost any combination of components.

It has Sakai custom Japan Road Champion handle bars, Modolo Speedy brakes, Campagnolo derailers. On the bottom of the frame....made in Italy 56 x 56.

I would have expected 3T or similar handlebars which would have better complemented the other components but I know that old bikes have had many owners and people do modify their bikes.

I note that it doesn't have any stickers and that bothered me, the only Alan frames I have seen had them on the down tube and seat tube so i wondered if it was a re-paint, which might hide old damage.

Any thoughts on what I should look for when I go?


WGB
Basically 2 companies made frames like this Alan and Vitus. IIRC neither was really festooned with a plethora of decals and it is very likely someone pulled them off. I used to ride with a guy who rebadge his Alan a Bianchi. Since this has a headbadge why would you doubt it is an Alan?

I'd be more interested in checking for cracks on the head lugs and signs of loose joints.

Those shifters are fabulous! If you don't get the bike at least try and get those.
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Old 09-03-17, 06:30 PM
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Yes, that is an ALAN, model "Super Record".....
Very nice, and top of the line on their aluminum model lineup.
Looks to be in very good condition. Things to watch out for is cracking at the head lugs, and sometimes at the seat lug. The top tube cable guides are fragile and sometimes get crushed out of shape and cracked during storage or handling.
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Old 09-04-17, 11:54 AM
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Sorry - cannot post on old thread

Sorry but there is no submit button when I attempt to post on old thread
thanks before to Randy JAWA, Bianchi girl and Chombi 1 for their comments

My new (to me) Alan.
Bought it, hope it's worth it
Price was $440 Canadian for frame – not components, settled on $500 with components which was more than I wanted to touch but I was already there and had driven a half hour. $500 Canadian is $403 US.

Photo 1
Seems solid, no noticeable loose frame components – no cracks that I saw
Photo 2
Close up side view that shows Alan on forks as well as frame and the scroll work above and below the head badge (which is a sticker – not a plate)
Photo 3
View from front
Photo 4
Sakai custom Japan Road Champion handlebars have drilled holes to allow brake cables to run through, hadn’t ever seen these previously (are these modified or original?)
Photo 5
Stem marked “Cinelli Milano”
Photo 6
Brake detail showing Modolo Speedy brakes (pads are Compagnolo)
Photo 7
Seat has seen better days and is marked “Concors S. Marco Supercorsa”
Photo 8 and Photo 9 – Photo 6 negative reversed
Pedals marked “Rino” and made in Italy
Straps marked “Brevete” and “Christophe” and on bottom “Brev. AFA” Made in France. Buckles even marked Made in France
Photo 10
Water holder marked “Specialized”
Photo 11
Shifters marked with letter ‘R” in Diamond
Photo 12
Front derailleur marked “Compagnolo” but cranks and gear wheels seem unmarked (I doubt they are brand name but wondered if they would have been part of a Compagnolo set, with the marked derailleurs (I am open to suggestions)?
Photo 13
Rear derailleur marked “Nouvo Record” and pulley wheels are marked “Compagnolo”
Photo 14
Bottom bracket shell underside marked “Brev. Alan” and made in Italy. The drain hole on the bottom of the bracket shell allows you to see the stamp Italy on the actual bottom bracket
Photo 15
Bottom bracket shell also marked with serial number and “56 x 56”

Bianchi girl - you said the shifters were fabulous, do you know the brand with an R in a diamond???

Anybody - unsure what would be correct rims and freewheel??

Lastly, can anyone give me a value (either in parts or as is) - my wife thinks I've lost my mind!!!
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Old 09-04-17, 12:00 PM
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For future reference

Sometimes the screen is too wide for your window. If so, the submit button is way off to the right, and you have to use the slide bar to pan across to it.

This seems to be a glitch, and happens to me every once in a while.
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Old 09-04-17, 12:17 PM
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^That usually happens to me when I am quoting someone.
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Old 09-04-17, 12:18 PM
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The shift levers are (Cambio) Rino Forate. The crankset is a (Cambio) Rino Crono.

Edit: Most Alan SR were sold as bare frames. It appears this this one rec'd components from a mid-1980s Cambio Rino donor bicycle with a few modifications.

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Old 09-04-17, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by WGB View Post
Sorry but there is no submit button when I attempt to post on old thread
thanks before to Randy JAWA, Bianchi girl and Chombi 1 for their comments

My new (to me) Alan.
Bought it, hope it's worth it
Price was $440 Canadian for frame – not components, settled on $500 with components which was more than I wanted to touch but I was already there and had driven a half hour. $500 Canadian is $403 US.


Photo 4
Sakai custom Japan Road Champion handlebars have drilled holes to allow brake cables to run through, hadn’t ever seen these previously (are these modified or original?) Some of the first aero brake levers required a hole drilled in the bar. These were quite often sold as frame only so it is hard to tell what if anything is 'original'

Photo 6
Brake detail showing Modolo Speedy brakes (pads are Compagnolo)

Photo 8 and Photo 9 – Photo 6 negative reversed
Pedals marked “Rino” and made in Italy
Straps marked “Brevete” and “Christophe” and on bottom “Brev. AFA” Made in France. Buckles even marked Made in France Rino is a company that used to make 'clones' of Campagnolo components.

Photo 10
Water holder marked “Specialized” Specialized is a california company that markets bikes and tons of accesories

Photo 11
Shifters marked with letter ‘R” in Diamond Rino Campagnolo clone shifters. Drilling and other machining of parts to make the marginally lighter but more important unique was popular in the '70s and early '80s

Photo 12
Front derailleur marked “Compagnolo” but cranks and gear wheels seem unmarked (I doubt they are brand name but wondered if they would have been part of a Compagnolo set, with the marked derailleurs (I am open to suggestions)? Only Campagnolo components would have come in a 'set' Again these were often sold as frame only and built how the buyer or shop selling them wanted them set up. The cranks look like one of the manyCampI clones. is there any markings on them?


Photo 13 Rear derailleur marked “Nouvo Record” and pulley wheels are marked “Compagnolo”


Photo 15
Bottom bracket shell also marked with serial number and “56 x 56” Frame size the seat tube is 56cm and the Top tube is 56cm

Bianchi girl - you said the shifters were fabulous, do you know the brand with an R in a diamond??? Rino! See above

Anybody - unsure what would be correct rims and freewheel?? See above it may be impossible to determine what is correct or original to that frame. A set of Campagnolo or Suntour hubs laced to silver tubular rims would be 'period correct.

Lastly, can anyone give me a value (either in parts or as is) - my wife thinks I've lost my mind!!!
That will be real nice looking after a good cleaning and overhaul.
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Old 09-04-17, 01:42 PM
  #11  
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Thanks for points to all!

FBinNY - I checked to see if it was hidden but no button (caught me the other day as well)

T-Mar and Bianchi girl - I found that the "R" was for Rino after I had posted.

Bianchi girl - I do believe I have some Suntour rims or I'll seek a set of Compagnolo rims and if not I have a nice set of Araya rims...... The cranks and gear wheels while dirty do not seem to have anything written on them so I immediately doubted Compagnolo if only because people who mark brake pads would mark everything else!

It seems like a nice frame that sat somewhere, I posted it before cleaning - it even has pine needles under the seat.

I assume that the circle piece attached to the seat post and located under the seat is where a pump would fit.

I had expected to see an odd assortment of components (my Fuso is the same, just nicer and cleaner). Funny that an owner who had to have Campagnolo brake pads would re-use parts from an old bike but it takes all kinds.

I am still puzzled by the holes in the bars for the brake cables. I have at least two pairs of Road Champion handlebars around my house but I've never seen them with the holes and wondered if they were a homemade modification or if they are store bought.

I will peel off the tape "sometime" over the winter to re-tape and then I'll know who made the brake levers. This bike I won't rush to scrub down

Finally, to stop my wife from mocking me, any ideas on a value???

There is a Guerciotti frame, ad says it's a Record frame made by Alan for sale in Toronto which has a Thomson seatpost for $300 Canadian and other than that I don't see any others locally.

Last edited by WGB; 09-04-17 at 01:49 PM. Reason: adding point
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Old 09-04-17, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by WGB View Post

Finally, to stop my wife from mocking me,
Sorry, can't help you there, But I think you did OK on the purchase. I seldom try to bargain for something I want. Incidentally, if you click that red exclamation mark on the left under your profile, you can ask a Moderator to merge your threads.
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Old 09-04-17, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by WGB View Post
FBinNY - I checked to see if it was hidden but no button (caught me the other day as well)....
You might want to post about the glitch here on the user assistance forum.
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Old 09-04-17, 04:06 PM
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Originally Posted by WGB View Post
FBinNY - I checked to see if it was hidden but no button (caught me the other day as well)

T-Mar and Bianchi girl - I found that the "R" was for Rino after I had posted.

Bianchi girl - I do believe I have some Suntour rims Suntour doesn't make rims but they used to make great hubs. Superbe, Sprint Cyclone or I'll seek a set of Compagnolo rims and if not I have a nice set of Araya rims...... They don't have to be CampI actually some people think Mavic made better rims The cranks and gear wheels while dirty do not seem to have anything written on them so I immediately doubted Compagnolo if only because people who mark brake pads would mark everything else! I believe T_Mar already identified the cranks as Rino as well.

It seems like a nice frame that sat somewhere, I posted it before cleaning - it even has pine needles under the seat.

I assume that the circle piece attached to the seat post and located under the seat is where a pump would fit. Yes measure from it down to the bottom bracket shell and that is what size pump you need.
If you can find one get a Zefal HPX. they are expensive but worth it.


I had expected to see an odd assortment of components (my Fuso is the same, just nicer and cleaner). Funny that an owner who had to have Campagnolo brake pads would re-use parts from an old bike but it takes all kinds. Again most of these were sold as frame only and people built them as they wanted them or could afford them. CampI is expensive and at one time it was not uncommon to see bikes come from the factory something like this. CampI derailleurs but a variety of other makers to keep the price down. The pads just happen to fit into those Modolo holders. I trim Kool Stop pads to go in my Modolo brakes.

I am still puzzled by the holes in the bars for the brake cables. I have at least two pairs of Road Champion handlebars around my house but I've never seen them with the holes and wondered if they were a homemade modification or if they are store bought. I thought I already answered this? The earliest aero style brake levers required a hole to be drilled in the bars for the brake cable.

I will peel off the tape "sometime" over the winter to re-tape and then I'll know who made the brake levers. This bike I won't rush to scrub down

Finally, to stop my wife from mocking me, any ideas on a value???

There is a Guerciotti frame, ad says it's a Record frame made by Alan for sale in Toronto which has a Thomson seatpost for $300 Canadian and other than that I don't see any others locally.
There isn't a name on the brake levers?
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Old 09-05-17, 07:32 AM
  #15  
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Apology to Bianchi girl and T-mar

Sorry I was rushing as had tickets to a football game and must have skimmed over your comments on the bars and the cranks

Just unsure how T-Mar saw they were Rino cranks, to me all cranks look the same unless there is a name on them. I guess we write that off to experience.
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Old 09-05-17, 07:59 AM
  #16  
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I merged the OP's two threads on this bike.
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Old 09-05-17, 02:03 PM
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Cinelli made bars with the holes for internally routing brake cables from the levers to the center of the bar, right next to the stem. I have a Cinelli Giro d' Italia handlebar that has such. I first thought it was a custom job, done by the previous owner of the handlebar, but after close examination, I concluded that the holes were done at the factory. The holes and slots are also very consistent in quality and location when you compare these Cinelli bars with one another, which will not be the case if it was just "home" done after the bar was bought.
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Old 09-05-17, 02:24 PM
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Originally Posted by WGB View Post
Sorry I was rushing as had tickets to a football game and must have skimmed over your comments on the bars and the cranks

Just unsure how T-Mar saw they were Rino cranks, to me all cranks look the same unless there is a name on them. I guess we write that off to experience.
He figured it out by the chain ring style

VeloBase.com - Component: Cambio Rino Corsa
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Old 09-06-17, 09:38 AM
  #19  
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Brake name

Bianchi Girl

Sorry, no name visible on levers. Hoods have "AME" on them. Haven't removed the hoods yet nor the tape on the bars. Hopefully there will be something there when I do.
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Old 09-06-17, 10:14 AM
  #20  
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These are really beautiful bikes, and an interesting assortment of components. I think you did well, and I look forward to seeing the finished bike, and reading a ride report.
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Old 09-08-17, 08:23 AM
  #21  
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Thanks to everyone for help and comments - tried it with a set of Araya rims but just doesn't seem to fit right for me. I know everyone will think I'm off on this but I prefer either my old Raleigh Grand Prix or my Fuso (both are taller bikes). I now have seven of mine and three more of my families bikes hanging in my garage so won't keep something just to look at. I guess I'll try the in house for sale site. I have had some very helpful advice on here (been saved from a bad buy or two) and don't want to repay that by gouging someone else (Bad Karma).

Ps I'm starting to wonder if I should call me insurance company and see if bikes are covered under my policy, 1-2 probably, 10, maybe not.....

Last edited by WGB; 09-08-17 at 08:23 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 09-08-17, 12:28 PM
  #22  
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That's too bad it is a great looking bike, and sizing and fit aside these aluminum bikes aren't for everyone. I would recommend this. Clean it as best you possibly can, you be suprised what a little lemon pledge can do to make a frame shine. If you a decent pair of wheels you can spare put them on to make it a complete bike. I would seriously consider some new bar tape to make it as presentable as possible. Post a few pics of the brake lever so we can try and figure what hoods you need but I am thinking they are Dia Compe.

It is my understand that Toronto is a hot market and if it make it look good you might be able to at least break even and chalk it up as a lesson learned. I seldom buy anything I can't test ride anymore, I've been burned with bikes claimed to be 23" but weren't.
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Old 09-08-17, 01:33 PM
  #23  
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Thanks Bianchi girl

Thanks for your reply, people could just say I was an idiot which I was....

This was a famous bike that you hear of but don't normally see so I moved while my gut said no. I can say that all the talk about cracking frames made for a nervous boy.

I have nice pair of Araya rims with quick releases that fit it but might seek out another nicer used rim set, I've seen some go through the co-op. If I have to I can always build up a rim set with Suntour hubs as you said previously, it would be something to do over winter. As for tape, the tape on it now seems more like hockey tape so yes anything would look better though I think I will stick with white!

Hoods will be done with the tape job.

I'll also replace the black brake cable housing when I replace the hoods as the right one frayed where it exits the handlebars.

Thanks again

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Old 09-08-17, 05:23 PM
  #24  
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I hope you did not quit on the ALAN just from fear of it cracking, As it is relatively a rare occurence.....
Especially as ALANs had been raced in cyclocross and won many championships for many years so they are as strong as most anyone will ever need them to be.....
If anything, I think the failure rate of ALAN and Vitus aluminum lugged/bonded frame bikes overall, is well within what you might expect for any bike whether it was caused by manufacturing defect or abuse/neglect by the owners......
There's just a lot of paranoia out there, generally about aluminum and CF bonded frame bikes since they first came out that never seems to die, despite the fact that thousands still continue to be ridden without any problems since the 80's.....
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Old 09-08-17, 08:19 PM
  #25  
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Not saying bad bike

Its a good bike, just I'm a big lad and don't see it looking too hot with 27 x 1 3/8 tires. Seriously, it just seems a bit "off" as a ride for me, don't know why. Perhaps it's because I've only ever had steel frames. Also seems short, I'm 6'2" with long arms. As a result I've got a wall hanger which perhaps might make someone else very happy. As for the fear of cracks, it's just I enjoy tinkering with bikes and now I have a vision of torquing the seat bolt and cracking the tube. Childish I know...
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