Notices
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Whats it Worth? Appraisals. Use this subforum for all requests as to "How much is this vintage bike worth?"Do NOT try to sell it in here, use the Marketplaces.

Not a Ross Signature, but a 508 Triad!

Old 02-18-18, 08:51 PM
  #1  
grayEZrider 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: tennessee
Posts: 379

Bikes: '13 Specialized Elite, KHS 223, '94 Trek 2120, 92 Raleigh technium, '87 Centurion LeMans, '86 Centurion IronMan, 2019 Canyon Endurace Al

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked 61 Times in 34 Posts
Not a Ross Signature, but a 508 Triad!

Was watching for a Ross Signature when I found a "maybe", judging from the one pic of the frame. Bought it for $80 and drove 240 mi round trip to get it. Tear down and study of the thing makes it (by catalog equipment list and Eisho lugs) a Ross 508 Triad. So I got extra lucky. But The serial number isn't anything near the layout for Ross bikes of any year or model. The catalog says it was available in all Ross colors. I'm guessing these were an "spec it, order it and wait for the build" bikes. Which might explain the SN. It looks like crap, but is the right size and intact. And after owning one of the mid-range Ross Gran Pro Tours since 1980 I have always wanted one of the hand built top of the line ones. (They did make a few hundred- by Kellogg and Redcay mostly, and "85 was the last of the Signature Series and USA made stuff.) SN reads RA850201229. Which is nothing like the production or even Signature series number system. Aside from probably the "R and 85", does anyone have any ideas about the rest of the serial number meaning?
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Ross 508 Triad as found.jpg (95.8 KB, 146 views)
File Type: jpg
Ross Eisho head tube lug ID.jpg (27.9 KB, 145 views)
File Type: jpg
Ross 508 sn.jpg (83.8 KB, 144 views)
__________________
there is no such thing as trash- only treasure in the wrong location.
grayEZrider is offline  
Old 02-19-18, 09:12 AM
  #2  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,056
Mentioned: 565 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3824 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,267 Times in 934 Posts
The derailleurs and crankset are consistent with a Triad butt he brakes are an a later generation. Ross had about 10 standard paint colours at the time. I suspect this frame was orignally white and the previous owner overlaid the grey and yellow.

The serial number format is not like any Ross I've seen but then again, Ross seemed to be continuously changing it. The 'A' is probably a month indicator (i.e. January) as that is what the 2nd alpha character represented on the production models of the era. They also typically included the model code, which in this case should be '508', but I don't see it.

I have some reservations about this actually being a Triad. First, the seat tube angle looks too shallow but that could be a photographic illusion. Second, while I've only seen a couple of Triads, they didn't use dropout eyelets. Lastly, the dome shaped stay and fork blade ends are typical of production models and not what I've seen on known Kellog and Redkay bicycles.

So, have you verified that it is a Columbus SL tubeset? Does it use a 27.2mm seat post? Does it have a Columbus fork steerer tube with five helical ridges inside the bottom and the Columbus dove logo on the outside?
T-Mar is offline  
Old 02-19-18, 08:54 PM
  #3  
grayEZrider 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: tennessee
Posts: 379

Bikes: '13 Specialized Elite, KHS 223, '94 Trek 2120, 92 Raleigh technium, '87 Centurion LeMans, '86 Centurion IronMan, 2019 Canyon Endurace Al

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked 61 Times in 34 Posts
598 ?? details

Thanks T-marr! I've been studying several long-time posters and have learned a lot. From yours in particular and was hoping you would chip in. OK, I did a partial tear down (and build up enough to test out tomorrow) and found the following. Upon pullng the BB I found a bright Blue overspray on the inside. And with dozens of scratches and chips, no (different) colors or primer beneath any of them. I suspect some weird "Ironman" copycat color hacking. I will check tube angles tomorrow but agree with you that even to naked eye the angles (and amount of trail) makes it look more like a touring rather than sport frame when compared to the catalog pics. The eyelets would tend to go there too. Serial no. searches show the Series as being two rows of numbers, not one. Possible prototype or in-house build for an employee? Also agree the brakes were "extra spec" or upgraded, as were the 105 pedals (with Campy toe clips). Catalog lists Columbus SL and SP tubing, but they also used Ishiwata on the series. I still lean that way because of the Eisho label lugs (the only bike in the catalog using those) and the fact the thing only weighs 21.5 lbs. 508 being listed at that also. The seat post is 27.3 and the freewheel in 13/23. I'll check on the forks, tube angles and such when I tear it back down tomorrow. Thanks
__________________
there is no such thing as trash- only treasure in the wrong location.
grayEZrider is offline  
Old 02-19-18, 08:57 PM
  #4  
grayEZrider 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: tennessee
Posts: 379

Bikes: '13 Specialized Elite, KHS 223, '94 Trek 2120, 92 Raleigh technium, '87 Centurion LeMans, '86 Centurion IronMan, 2019 Canyon Endurace Al

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked 61 Times in 34 Posts
508 ? pics

I think it dropped the pics. Here in case.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg
Ross 508 head tube.jpg (206.7 KB, 111 views)
File Type: jpg
Ross 508 crank,pedal.jpg (88.7 KB, 111 views)
__________________
there is no such thing as trash- only treasure in the wrong location.
grayEZrider is offline  
Old 02-20-18, 07:08 AM
  #5  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,056
Mentioned: 565 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3824 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,267 Times in 934 Posts
I don't think I've ever seen a seat post with an odd number increment. Regardless, it's a good sign as it's close to 27.2mm, which is the typical size for both Columbus SL and Ishiwata 022. Also, I would put much weight in the Eisho lugs indicating Ishiwata. That may be the case if it was sourced from Japan but if it was built in the USA, then it's the builder preference. The fork will be our best indicator for the tubeset.

I wasn't expecting blue to be the OEM colour but Ross did have two blues they offered during this period. Peacock Blue was code 12 and Concord Blue was code 29. You've got both in your serial though I'd be leaning towards the last two digits. The Kellog and Redkay models may have had a two part model and serial number but I've seen lower production models with it all incorporated into a single line. Ross really wasn't consistent in the mid-1980s, based on what I've seen.

I couldn't tell from the pictures that the pedals were New 105 as they're a similar design to New 600EX. However, New 105 didn't debut until the 1987 model year, so they're owner replacements, as are the brakes. The latter were a very common replacement. New 105 brakes were the first to receive SLR technology and their improved modulation and light feel, in conjunction with aero cable routing, made them a popular upgrade, even among Dura-Ace riders.

Edit: Here's another thought. On the lower production models I've seen, the serial number format was Rym, with only a single numeral indicating the year. So maybe it's a January 1988 model with the New 105 being OEM and the New 600EX being replacements from a parts bin? The 502 in the serial number might be a new model code, something that took over form the 508 Triad? Again, the fork may provide some clues. If it's non-Columbus, there's a good chance that it will have a date code to verify the year.

Last edited by T-Mar; 02-20-18 at 07:18 AM.
T-Mar is offline  
Old 02-20-18, 12:40 PM
  #6  
Bianchigirll 
Bianchi Goddess
 
Bianchigirll's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Shady Pines Retirement Fort Wayne, In
Posts: 27,350

Bikes: Too many to list here check my signature.

Mentioned: 145 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1947 Post(s)
Liked 733 Times in 463 Posts
What kind of shifter bosses does it have? The “standard” square Campi style or the smaller round shipmano?
__________________
Bianchis '90 Proto, '90 Campione del Fausto Giamondi Specialisma Italiano Mundo, '91 Boarala 'cross, '93 Project 3, '86 Volpe, '97 Ti Megatube, '93 Reparto Corse SBX

Others but still loved; '80 Batavus Professional, '87 Cornelo, '?? Jane Doe (still on the drawing board), '90ish Haro Escape SLX Bertoni "Speckled Trout"
Bianchigirll is offline  
Old 02-20-18, 08:41 PM
  #7  
grayEZrider 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: tennessee
Posts: 379

Bikes: '13 Specialized Elite, KHS 223, '94 Trek 2120, 92 Raleigh technium, '87 Centurion LeMans, '86 Centurion IronMan, 2019 Canyon Endurace Al

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked 61 Times in 34 Posts
jury-rig test Ross but not stripped yet

I hauled the seat post into the LBS they measured and ordered a 27.0 for me. As stout as the Avocet one was it was slightly off eccentric and I did not measure it well enough. I think you're right on the #29 blue. I didn't tear it down today because it was 74 and sunny (the first for either this year) so I threw on a single 34 crank and a 300 exage long cage and put a few miles on it. WOW. LIGHT touring rig, and certainly a keeper. I goofed off the rest of the daylight on my Specialized. I have determined that Avocet was an evil French sadist who I hoped was burned at the stake for impersonating an engineer. I'll try to get the front end torn down in the next couple of (busy) days. I appreciate the help. And I'll see if I can find any '88 catalog.
__________________
there is no such thing as trash- only treasure in the wrong location.
grayEZrider is offline  
Old 02-20-18, 08:51 PM
  #8  
grayEZrider 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: tennessee
Posts: 379

Bikes: '13 Specialized Elite, KHS 223, '94 Trek 2120, 92 Raleigh technium, '87 Centurion LeMans, '86 Centurion IronMan, 2019 Canyon Endurace Al

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked 61 Times in 34 Posts
oops, forgot

Oh yes. The seat and head tube angle was 74*. And would the 508 have been considered one of the Signature series?
A previous (thread) answer from one of the Signature series builders he said none of the series was made after the outsourcing done in late '85, and he had himself tossed out many of the jigs.
__________________
there is no such thing as trash- only treasure in the wrong location.
grayEZrider is offline  
Old 07-23-19, 04:01 PM
  #9  
kilimanjaro98
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Southern California
Posts: 15

Bikes: Storck Scenero, Ross Signature Triad

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 6 Times in 2 Posts
Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
I don't think I've ever seen a seat post with an odd number increment. Regardless, it's a good sign as it's close to 27.2mm, which is the typical size for both Columbus SL and Ishiwata 022. Also, I would put much weight in the Eisho lugs indicating Ishiwata. That may be the case if it was sourced from Japan but if it was built in the USA, then it's the builder preference. The fork will be our best indicator for the tubeset.

I wasn't expecting blue to be the OEM colour but Ross did have two blues they offered during this period. Peacock Blue was code 12 and Concord Blue was code 29. You've got both in your serial though I'd be leaning towards the last two digits. The Kellog and Redkay models may have had a two part model and serial number but I've seen lower production models with it all incorporated into a single line. Ross really wasn't consistent in the mid-1980s, based on what I've seen.

I couldn't tell from the pictures that the pedals were New 105 as they're a similar design to New 600EX. However, New 105 didn't debut until the 1987 model year, so they're owner replacements, as are the brakes. The latter were a very common replacement. New 105 brakes were the first to receive SLR technology and their improved modulation and light feel, in conjunction with aero cable routing, made them a popular upgrade, even among Dura-Ace riders.

Edit: Here's another thought. On the lower production models I've seen, the serial number format was Rym, with only a single numeral indicating the year. So maybe it's a January 1988 model with the New 105 being OEM and the New 600EX being replacements from a parts bin? The 502 in the serial number might be a new model code, something that took over form the 508 Triad? Again, the fork may provide some clues. If it's non-Columbus, there's a good chance that it will have a date code to verify the year.
I am the original owner of a Ross Signature Triad which I still have, the 63 cm pink frame purchased directly from the Ross showroom in Commerce, CA in 1985. The stamped numbers on the bottom are 508 6316 84 107. I had it built up at a bike shop in Pasadena with Shimano Dura Ace bottom bracket, chain rings, and cranks; the remaining components are Shimano 105 I believe. I competed as an age group triathlete (international distance) for several years.
Since 1990 it has been used off and on for fitness riding. First generation Time clipless pedals were installed in the early 90s which have since been replaced by Speedplays. As my age got higher and my speed got slower, I could no longer do justice to the flashy hot pink paint and had the bike refurbished and painted burgundy in the mid-90s by Cycle Art in San Diego county; at that time a cracked bottom bracket was replaced.
At age 60, the 53/42 chain rings coupled with a 6 speed 13-24 became impractical for my knees, and I bought a carbon fiber Storck with more appropriate old man gearing. I am torn between keeping the beautiful Ross for flat rides or selling it to someone who would appreciate it for the classic it is. I am taking it to have it refurbished by Joe Bell in San Diego whose work is very respected.
You seem to be quite knowledgeable about this bike. Is there a market for it?
kilimanjaro98 is offline  
Old 07-23-19, 04:34 PM
  #10  
T-Mar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,056
Mentioned: 565 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3824 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,267 Times in 934 Posts
Originally Posted by kilimanjaro98 View Post
I am the original owner of a Ross Signature Triad which I still have, the 63 cm pink frame purchased directly from the Ross showroom in Commerce, CA in 1985. The stamped numbers on the bottom are 508 6316 84 107. I had it built up at a bike shop in Pasadena with Shimano Dura Ace bottom bracket, chain rings, and cranks; the remaining components are Shimano 105 I believe. I competed as an age group triathlete (international distance) for several years.
Since 1990 it has been used off and on for fitness riding. First generation Time clipless pedals were installed in the early 90s which have since been replaced by Speedplays. As my age got higher and my speed got slower, I could no longer do justice to the flashy hot pink paint and had the bike refurbished and painted burgundy in the mid-90s by Cycle Art in San Diego county; at that time a cracked bottom bracket was replaced.
At age 60, the 53/42 chain rings coupled with a 6 speed 13-24 became impractical for my knees, and I bought a carbon fiber Storck with more appropriate old man gearing. I am torn between keeping the beautiful Ross for flat rides or selling it to someone who would appreciate it for the classic it is. I am taking it to have it refurbished by Joe Bell in San Diego whose work is very respected.
You seem to be quite knowledgeable about this bike. Is there a market for it?
Welcome to the forums. Yes, I think there is a market for this bicycle but you will not recoup what you have and are investing, so you may want to consider keeping it. If it is OEM with the exception of the Dura-Ace parts, the remaining components should be Shimano New 600EX. It's probably best to sell with out the pedals, as not too many C&V are into clipless, especially Time or Speedplay. If you have a pair of old quill pedals you could install for test rides, that would be great. The large size will probably limit the market. Most cyclists don't consider Ross to be a member of the high end club and they aren't familiar with the models, so make sure you mention the Columbus SL tubing in the header/title of the sale advertisement. That should draw some attention. Condition is the biggest factor in value and that's hard to assess without pictures.
T-Mar is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Doooombringer
Classic & Vintage
3
04-27-16 09:51 AM
jonwvara
Classic & Vintage
8
06-08-15 10:02 AM
Matt S
Classic & Vintage
2
02-28-14 07:31 PM
bearcat22
Bicycle Mechanics
7
05-21-13 01:11 PM
polszki
Classic & Vintage
10
11-10-10 11:19 AM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.