Paramount frame
 

Schwinn Paramount men's bicycle

There is a Paramount for sale in Buffalo and the pictures are terrible. Ad copy not much use.
"For sale . Mid 1970s .
Ready to ride .
34 inch stand over height.
27 inch wheels
Highest reasonable offer"

I have asked owner for following details


1) How tall is the frame (34 in stand over doesn't quite work for me, I want to know concrete numbers)

2) Who made the drive components - freewheel, front and rear derailleurs, shifters, brake levers and brakes, handlebar stem and bars, seat and seat post and cranks (Schwinn? Campagnolo? Shimano? Suntour etc?) - are the shifters Super Record? bars look to me like Sakai? Can't quite read name on seat?

3) Who made the wheels (actual rims should have a name stamped on them, wheel hubs as well)? Wheels look 27 inch

4) How many gears - looks like 5 speed rear?

5) Are rims Presta or Schraeder? Looks like Schraeder in photos?

6) Why is the rear brake cable hanging off the frame instead of through the brazeons?

Was thinking it looks like someone got a used frame and built it up on the cheap (either way back when or now).
Bothered by: potential paint damage caused by the rear rack
use of the screw on brake clamps when brazeons right there (are the brazeons crushed?)
cheap bar covers

Assuming no serious crushing under rack and the brazeons aren't crushed (and there is any value to the components) - oh almost forgot and if it fits me,
What value would you place on this one?? I was guessing $500 max

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8c30eb5afa.jpg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a3755a9f57.jpg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...d6e735f33f.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...01aca5b425.jpg

It does look to be a early 70,s 24inch Paramount. A lot or most of the components are none original the shifter's are Suntour Power Shifers clamp on (likely had no braze on's originaly this frame was from a time when they were still using clamp stuff) with what look like Suntour VX shifters, the wheels look to be 27inch Wienmans with Campy large flange hubs and a fairly modern wide range 6 speed freewheel looks like shcrader valves these maybe original, mid level 80's Japanese bars and brakes poorly setup. All and all a really nice frame but the build looks to be a ametuer budget build parts seem a bit random. As for value if the frame has no issues I would say $350-400 value with most of it being for the frame set.

Saddle looks to be a Brooks Professional. possibly original, but in good shape +1 there

as for the brake cable using the clamps and not the brazeons, this as i gather was a common thing as it was felt the Braze-ons were installed on the wrong side for most Brake setups.

My Paramount i used the braze-on and just had a little bit longer cable housing from the braze-on to the Brake caliper.

That appears to be a 1973-1975 P10 Paramount. If the stand-over height is correct, a 24" frame sounds about right. It appears that the owner has placed tape under the mounting points of the rear rack, so hopefully they won't be any damage there.

That is an early Brooks Pro and in that condition they go for $100 +/- on eBay. If that frame fit me and the condition was good, I'd give $500 for it all day long.

https://buffalo.craigslist.org/bik/d...601682896.html


Reply from owner and now new photos.

RD is Suntour V luxe,FD Suntour NSL, shifters are Suntour Power, front brake is Weinmann, rear brake is Carerra, cranks are Campagnolo, bars are Giro D'italia which I think are Cinelli and I think that is a Cinelli stamp on the stem but my glasses are out in my car which is not very good. My take is that the parts look very tired and dated at the very least though it could be photos. Bars look nice but I thought that they started remaking Giro D'Italia bars.

Headset appears really pitted with rust.

I asked specifically about why there were the screw on cable clamps but no mention in reply. Having said that it could be just what Fleslider said about preference in routing of cables.

I was just at the Buffalo Co-op tonight and to get there I drove right by where the Paramount was stored!! I wish I could have seen it.

I'm in uncharted waters here and may have to drive back tomorrow or Thursday night for a look-see. I prefer a 25 inch frame but this bike screams rebuild and I have a Dura Ace groupset that might need a home........

OP,
if the seller is correct then RD, FD and rear brake are incorrect...if the frame is not dented and paint is in good condition the other parts are easy to find and not that costly.
Be sure to check if the seat and stem are stuck etc. Nice original paint Paramount are not that easy to find.
I would not over think it if the price is right.
Good Luck, Ben

Wienmann Carrera brakes. You dont see those too often. Nice Brooks with the open nose design...my favorite. Thats a great looking bike and great color too. Campy Superleggera pedals. I'd offer $600. But with no price in the ad and him stating check prices on ebay...bet he wants over a grand.

The bars and stem look correct for the bike; they are the earlier (pre-78?) logos. From the photo of the head tube it does look like a 24" frame. Only needing derailleurs and brakes to be original, I think $700 would be a fair price.

OP,
If seller wants you to look at the prices on Ebay remind him of the premium that Ebay and Pay-pal get along with the hassel of having to pack and ship.

Now the ad is a total, complete, turn off! Anyone who tells me to check ebay for current pricing, I tell them go ahead and sell on ebay, where you pay all kinds of fees, you have to pack and ship, buyers win any and all disputes.

If I was super interested, I'd find the lowest completed auction for one that sold on ebay, subtract 20% for fees, and offer him that. Something like: " I took your advice, THANKS! Checked ebay, and this one sold for $795. It had all the original parts, and seller had to pay about $150 in fees to sell it, so I can give you $650." In person of course, and be nice about it. Even if seller is a jerk, its a one time transaction, so bear with it. Check for rust and stuck post or stem!!

Be sure to steer him away from ASKING prices. People can and DO ask crazy prices for stuff on ebay. Its what stuff SELLS for that matters. My standard line for people that focus on asking prices on ebay, "If I asked $20 on ebay for a $10 bill, would that make my $10 bill worth $20? If so, I'm heading to the bank!"

This one sold for $650. https://www.ebay.com/itm/1974-Schwinn-Paramount-P15-9-Campagnolo-Record-/222973453554?hash=item33ea40e4f2%3Ag%3AIxIAAOSw-H1a9E1O&nma=true&si=5GlaDRIVGaWYQ2yB7f%252B32mZaMZ0%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


This one for $600 sounds like it has been fully serviced: https://www.ebay.com/itm/1977-Schwinn-Paramount-P-10-w-Full-Campagnolo-Nuovo-Record-23-034-Frame-L-039-Eroica-/382414580364?hash=item5909af6a8c%3Ag%3AUCQAAOSwW5larv27&nma=true&si=5GlaDRIVGaWYQ2yB7f%252B32mZaMZ0% 253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I sent him the link for a bike that recently sold and which I thought was comparable. I said I need to see it in person.

This one had more Campagnola parts and actually was a nicer looking bike

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970s-schwi...p2047675.l2557

WGB

Bidding at $650 so I sm out. Best of luck to anyone else interested.

When is the auction over? I want yo get my snipe bid in on time.

My 74 Paramount P10 had the braze-ons which were similarly not used when I first received it. I removed the clamps and had the cables routed thru the braze-ons after my purchase. Coincidentally, I just sold that bike yesterday.

For big chainring, no auction he says he's in no rush to sell. You have to email him (or call) and offer a bid.

camelopardalis - is is taboo to ask what you got???

I wish I had seen this one that went for $250 plus shipping.....

https://www.ebay.com/itm/1970s-schwi...p2047675.l2557

I tend not to chase them when phrases like, "check ebay for prices" is stated in an ad.

$800. And it sold in 5 days on Craigslist.

Don't waste your time on this one. He reiisted at $850 and is now taking offers over $800...

Wish I had bought one I posted above from eBay that sold for$240 plus$100 shipping. Looked like much better components too.

I saw this bike on CL a few months ago and seeing the Suntour components, I wasn't very motivated to look into it. I started researching Paramount components from the 70's to see what could have been original. Never saw this thread....
About 2 weeks ago I checked CL to see if it was still listed and surprisingly it was, with additional photos prompted by WGB. The seller is not a bike guy but he knew it was a good bike and eBay was the obvious way to see what the market was. He was selling it for the family of the original owner who had passed away, so how it got to its present configuration is a riddle.
In the end, he wasn't interested in shipping it out of town or parting it out. I was the first person to show up and I took it home for 450. RD, FD, shifters, tires, freewheel, brakes and levers have been replaced; the rest is original and in good condition. I'll post photos in the C&V forum later.

Schreck83 well done!! I was waiting until the start of October and then I was going to make an approach and offer $450 as well!!

For what it's worth, I had heard there was a similar one (though a 23 inch frame) at Rick cycle in Buffalo.

I'll have to swing by Rick and see. I was hoping for a 25" frame, but it is 24", like my Gitane.