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196? Raleigh Carlton

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Old 01-06-19, 08:22 PM
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alexander55
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196? Raleigh Carlton

Thoughts as to specific year and value of this Raleigh would be appreciated. I've looked through a bunch of Raleigh catalogs online and can't find a match. The bike appears to be original, but am wonderful why the Ideale saddle instead of a Brooks. Thanks again for any thoughts.





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Old 01-06-19, 08:46 PM
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That is a cool bike. It has to be fairly old to have a reynolds DB main triangle and a steel cottered crank. Plus it's in terrific shape.
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Old 01-06-19, 09:09 PM
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With that Williams cotterless crank and stamped rear dropouts it reminds me of a Ď67 Carlton Catalina I owned for a short while. Nice bike!

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Old 01-06-19, 09:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
That is a cool bike. It has to be fairly old to have a reynolds DB main triangle and a steel cottered crank. Plus it's in terrific shape.
Thanks. It "kind of" matches some pictures/component groups in the 1964 Raleigh catalog and the same with one in the 1967 catalog...but not really a perfect match for either. So...still trying to figure it out.

It may have been the dirtiest bike I have ever found. Absolutely covered in THICK layers of dust. It had been sitting for a very long time...which helped preserve it. I haven't done anything to it yet other than give it a bit of a "bath". The tires hold air and everything works as I took it on a SLOW ride around the block. Looking forward to doing a more thorough clean and polish and trying to find out a bit more about it. Thanks again.
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Old 01-06-19, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by orcas island View Post
With that Williams cotterless crank and stamped rear dropouts it looks like a Ď67 Carlton Catalina I owned for a short while. Nice bike!
Thanks! That helps. I hadn't seen a model name previously.
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Old 01-06-19, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by alexander55 View Post
Thanks. It "kind of" matches some pictures/component groups in the 1964 Raleigh catalog and the same with one in the 1967 catalog...but not really a perfect match for either. So...still trying to figure it out.

It may have been the dirtiest bike I have ever found. Absolutely covered in THICK layers of dust. It had been sitting for a very long time...which helped preserve it. I haven't done anything to it yet other than give it a bit of a "bath". The tires hold air and everything works as I took it on a SLOW ride around the block. Looking forward to doing a more thorough clean and polish and trying to find out a bit more about it. Thanks again.
You've done a nice job cleaning it up. You will want to open it up to overhaul the hubs, bottom bracket, pedals, and headset before doing any riding. Cottered cranks are a bit of a PITA to deal with but it's a strong design.
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Old 01-06-19, 09:26 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
You've done a nice job cleaning it up. You will want to open it up to overhaul the hubs, bottom bracket, pedals, and headset before doing any riding. Cottered cranks are a bit of a PITA to deal with but it's a strong design.
Thanks. Literally, it was just a wash off and the paint just started to pop. I'm excited about it. As you recommend, it will get a thorough "going over", etc. I've never dealt with the cranks, but "I have a guy". Ha. I'll let him deal with that and do some of the other service as well. I am going to keep this one. I am curious however as to thoughts of a "ballpark" value.
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Old 01-06-19, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by alexander55 View Post
Thanks. Literally, it was just a wash off and the paint just started to pop. I'm excited about it. As you recommend, it will get a thorough "going over", etc. I've never dealt with the cranks, but "I have a guy". Ha. I'll let him deal with that and do some of the other service as well. I am going to keep this one. I am curious however as to thoughts of a "ballpark" value.
You're guy may not have the tools to deal with a cottered crank. Just something you want to check with.

This bike is hard to value because the condition is so good. I can see it fetching some cash on eBay but I doubt you'd get a lot in a local sale in KS city. Locally to some collector, this bike is worth in the neighborhood of $300 given its age and condition. One thing to keep in mind is that this is not a top of the line bike.

If you like old bikes and this fits you, I'd keep it. Bikes like this come up do not come up often.
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Old 01-06-19, 09:37 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
You're guy may not have the tools to deal with a cottered crank. Just something you want to check with.

This bike is hard to value because the condition is so good. I can see it fetching some cash on eBay but I doubt you'd get a lot in a local sale in KS city. Locally to some collector, this bike is worth in the neighborhood of $300 given its age and condition. One thing to keep in mind is that this is not a top of the line bike.

If you like old bikes and this fits you, I'd keep it. Bikes like this come up do not come up often.

He's got the tools. He's in his 70s and had a shop for almost 40 years. But...thanks for the caution.
Thanks for the thoughts on the valuation. Makes sense to me...and good point on not top of line.
As noted...this one is staying in the collection. Will sit nicely between a late 50s/early 60s Raleigh made Huffy and a 73 Competition.
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Old 01-06-19, 09:42 PM
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Yours is in beautifully preserved condition. It looks much more original than my Catalina was. That dark root beer color is great. While perhaps not a top of the line model, itís a classic and will definitely provide you with many enjoyable miles. For what itís worth, I sold mine in the SF Bay Area for $175 about 3 years ago. Yours in nicer, more original shape than mine was.
Check either the inside of the crank arm or the chainrings ( canít remember which) for a 2 digit date code for that component. Itís a good place to start for dating the bike.....

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Old 01-06-19, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by alexander55 View Post
He's got the tools. He's in his 70s and had a shop for almost 40 years. But...thanks for the caution.
Thanks for the thoughts on the valuation. Makes sense to me...and good point on not top of line.
As noted...this one is staying in the collection. Will sit nicely between a late 50s/early 60s Raleigh made Huffy and a 73 Competition.
Nice bikes for sure. One of these days we need to put together a midwest C&V bike ride. A ride on the Wabash trail would be good as that would pull from Kansas City, Omaha, and Des Moines.
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Old 01-06-19, 09:54 PM
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Originally Posted by orcas island View Post
Yours is in beautifully preserved condition. It looks much more original than my Catalina was. That dark root beer color is great. While perhaps not a top of the line model, itís a classic and will definitely provide you with many enjoyable miles. For what itís worth, I sold mine in the SF Bay Area for $175 about 3 years ago. Yours is nicer looking than mine was.
Check either the inside of the crank arm or the chainrings ( canít remember which) for a 2 digit date code for that component. Itís a good place to start for dating the bike.....
Thanks for the feedback on value. I really like that root beer color as well. Will double check the codes tomorrow. Thanks again!
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Old 01-06-19, 09:55 PM
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Nice bikes for sure. One of these days we need to put together a midwest C&V bike ride. A ride on the Wabash trail would be good as that would pull from Kansas City, Omaha, and Des Moines.

I would be up for a ride on the Wabash. A little show and/or swap before would make it a fun little trip up I-29.
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Old 01-06-19, 10:06 PM
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Date code on Williams cranks = 1963.
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Old 01-06-19, 10:30 PM
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Amazing condition! There's some info here: https://on-the-drops.blogspot.com/search?q=carlton
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Old 01-07-19, 05:08 AM
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Originally Posted by bertinjim View Post
Amazing condition! There's some info here: https://on-the-drops.blogspot.com/search?q=carlton
That's a great resource. It looks as if the OP's bike might be the Raleigh "Carlton" model. It's worth checking out the link to see the picture of Robert Mitchum on a Carlton!
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Old 01-07-19, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by bertinjim View Post
Amazing condition! There's some info here: https://on-the-drops.blogspot.com/search?q=carlton
Wow. Thanks for the link. It's very helpful.
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Old 01-07-19, 11:13 AM
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The components are a perfect match for my 66 or 67 "flame" paint Raleigh Carlton down to the drilled for center pull brakes GB stem. However mine is plain gauge 531 and did come with a Brooks saddle. "Carlton" is the model name of these Raleigh bikes. The SN on mine is U3847.Coffee with a different white head tube is an available color in Kurt's 1967 Catalog:http://www.kurtkaminer.com/1967raleighcat_us_03_lg.jpg,
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Old 01-07-19, 09:01 PM
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Thanks so much for the details and info leads. Very helpful!
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Old 01-07-19, 10:32 PM
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Why has no one noted that this bike has a '69 Anniversary head badge? Supposedly, these were only found on '69 and '70 models. The wrap over seat stays,and lug cut outs look very similar to the Gazelle made Grand Prixs of this era, as well. The stamped dropouts and serial number location also seem to be from a non 531 frame set. The fork seems to have a TDC head set, which were usually BSC (Standard English) Threading. BSC threading usually didn't come o any model lower than a Gran(d) Sport. Gran Sports also were made with stamped drop outs, though often with a Raleigh Proprietary head set. Usually, a 531 frame set would have forged drop outs in 1969 or 70. This looks suspicious to me; sort f a Frankenstein Raleigh concoction. What is the seat post size? Could the 531 transfer have been added?
I,admit, though, I,am only really familiar with the US models, so a different market model might be what we have here.

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Old 01-08-19, 07:45 AM
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elcraft-
The anniversary badge was fitted beyond the anniversary. alexander55's Carlton is a legitimate, regular production export model that was for U.S. consumption. Check this link which I will repeat here: https://on-the-drops.blogspot.com/search?q=carlton I think you will find many of your concerns addressed in the article there.
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Old 01-08-19, 10:56 AM
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Pretty sure I bought my Raleigh Carlton in 1967 from Stuyvesant Bike Shop and it has the anniversary head badge. My next door neighbor bought his Blue Raleigh Carlton in Winston-Salem, NC at the same time and it had the standard heron head badge. I do suspect that the OP's 531 decal is a replacement. My seat post is 26.7 mm/ 1.05 inch. Although my frame appears to be smaller than the OP's I'd be happy to weigh mine with the wheels, front fender and saddle off to compare weights.
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Old 01-08-19, 05:17 PM
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...it does look a lot like the Catalina. Here is one slightly earlier than yours (1965), in a flamboyant red. Nice bikes...a solid ride in the Carlton tradition, and made from 531 unbutted frame tubing (like the Super Course of those years.)









I have not looked for catalog photos over the ensuing years, but I would try doing Google image searches for "60's Carlton Catalina" and see what popped up.
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Old 01-08-19, 05:22 PM
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Dating Carltons.

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Old 01-08-19, 05:30 PM
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...it was the opinion of many (myself included) that the Ideale saddles of that time period (late 60's-early 70's) were more comfortable, and better made saddles than the comparable Brooks models. They sell for insane prices right now in the e-bay, FWIW, probably because they went out of production and they are less commonly encountered.

I have no idea of the value of your bike, but if you decide to sell, you'll probably get more money overall by selling the saddle separately from the bicycle. But I don't sell on e-bay, so what do I know ?
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