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1991 Paramount OS Road Design

Old 01-23-19, 05:04 PM
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1991 Paramount OS Road Design

I have a vintage bike that Id like to find a new home. Im not interested in finding out the max price that I could possibly get for it. Instead Id like get an idea of a price that the new owner could say, I got a great price without me feeling like I totally gave it away. Does anyone have any idea on what price range that might be?Here is a quick summary of the bike Its a 1991 Paramount, OS road design, 62 cm, Waterford frame (serial #620FMW G91074). I ordered the frame separately with a custom black and white paint job. Dura Ace components were added. It was used for several years as it should have been, but slowly the use decreased and for many years now it has been hanging in my garage. As far as I know its in okay shape for its age and use, no big rust spots, but would definitely need some TLC before use. For example, many wheel spokes are broken. I will add photos once I reach the 10 post minimum.I know the 62cm frame limits potential buyers, but any ideas on what a buyer would consider a great price without me totally giving it away? I really want it to have a second life, if possible. Thank you.
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Old 01-23-19, 06:16 PM
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The Waterford Paramounts are nice frames and I'm sure you will find some one happy to have it. Waterford has a webpage with the history of their bikes from that era. Looking forward to seeing the pictures! There is also a Paramount facebook group, and you might also want to post the pictures there.
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Old 01-23-19, 07:40 PM
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I think $300 +/- is a fair price for an OS bike - the lower you go, the more the new owner will say "I got a deal".
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Old 01-23-19, 08:19 PM
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We need to see pics. I think it might be worth a bit more than $300 and the buyer will get a good deal. The tough part is the custom build part. Being a 62 and if the geometry is odd because of a really short or long top tube that will be a tough sell.
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Old 01-24-19, 02:00 AM
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Old 01-24-19, 02:14 AM
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Hmmm, those appear to be sewup (tubular) tires, I think. They've fallen out of popularity for general road riding, although still popular with collectors.

It looks like you're losing some anodizing on the front wheel. The rear still looks good.

How did you manage to break and bend spokes?

Can you do the maintenance to fix up the spokes, clean the bike, etc?

Originally Posted by friendofpugs View Post
I think $300 +/- is a fair price for an OS bike - the lower you go, the more the new owner will say "I got a deal".
That may well be close. I'd probably try at least $400. Maye a bit more if it is cleaned up and made "rideable".

Although, for a buyer like me, I'd rather get the bike "untouched", and put in the elbow grease myself. Spokes aren't a big deal as long as the wheels aren't too damaged.

What city are you located in? That may also impact the value.
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Old 01-24-19, 05:23 AM
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Am I missing something or did misread the OP’s post? Is this just an off the shelf PDG frame with a fancy pain scheme and not a Waterford built frame?
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Old 01-24-19, 06:36 AM
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You would think anything that said "PDG" on it would be built in Japan by Panasonic, but I believe a few were built in Waterford during that era. And that's not the same paint job the '91's mass-produced in Japan got, all the ones I've seen had the "splatter" paint jobs. I would guess that's probably a custom Waterford frame. No idea why Schwinn would put "PDG" on it though if it was indeed built in Waterford, that's just confusing.
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Old 01-24-19, 07:32 AM
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That's definitely a Waterford serial number and not M-a-t-s-u-s-h-i-t-a (Panasonic brand).
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Old 01-24-19, 10:04 AM
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Sometimes people assume that PDG means imported, but the Paramount Design Group (PDG) was located in Waterford, WI, and some of the PDG frames were built in Waterford, WI. The PDG "Series" bikes were mostly imported from Asia (with a few Series frames built in the U.S. as described in the link below), and Waterford has a webpage that provides more details on the Waterford built PDG frames versus the imported PDG "Series" bikes. The Waterford built frames typically sell at a higher price, so maybe $500 instead of $300 (more or less, depending on condition and components).

Last edited by GailT; 01-24-19 at 10:16 AM.
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Old 01-24-19, 07:15 PM
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Thank you for posting those pictures. I'm not sure how you did it, but I'm glad you did.

I previously sent the serial number to Richard Schwinn at Waterfordbikes.com and he replied that it was a Waterford bike, 62 cm, OS road design, built in July 1991.

It wasn't a custom build, just a custom paint job.

The spokes broke from lack of use, I assume. It's been in the garage for quite a while, sadly. As CliffordK mentioned, it will need some elbow grease. But I think it has good bones.

I am located in Boca Raton, FL. I agree that it would be nice to find a LOCAL second owner.

As I mentioned, I'm really not trying to get top dollar. Just trying to find it a new owner without totally giving it away. It will be a sad day. I spent many mornings on that bike. Oh well, time marches on.
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Old 01-24-19, 07:45 PM
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I'm not sure spokes will break due to lack of use, although when I was in college, I had several spokes pull through my rim while the bike was parked under my roommate's bed. I never got an answer on how it happened, but it may have been spontaneous.

I do see at least one bent spoke on the top of the front wheel.

So, I think the problem is more likely from bumping and moving, and hanging the bike. But, the question remains is the damage is isolated to $5 worth of replacement spokes???
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Old 01-25-19, 08:32 AM
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Well here is my suggestion on how to both sell it and figure out a value. First I suggest a good tuneup and cleaning, as well as getting the spokes fixed. While your at the shop ask them how much they charge to pack the bike for shipping. check BikeFlights website and get an estimate of shipping from your house to the furthest point in the U.S.

Take some good pics of the bike, take some time scrolling through the main Classic and Vintage thread and check out the pics we post to show off our toys.

Post it on ebay with a starting bid of say $500 and make and offer or a buy it now of say $800. For shipping cost use the combined total of what the shop wants to pack it and what bikeflights wants to ship it. Then see what anyone offers. If you'd be happy getting $300 for it post it at $500 with free shipping.

As mentioned your bike is sort of unique and has a nice pedigree but can often be confused with mass produced models, plus it is big so getting a good value is tough. If it was a fire engine red Waterford in 56cm frame it would likely be worth close to $800 or 900. You sort of have a Caddilac Fleetwood in Caprice clothing.
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Last edited by Bianchigirll; 01-25-19 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 01-25-19, 10:22 AM
  #14  
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Broken spokes are a symptom of a bike that has been neglected and ignored. When I can see such obvious neglect, I always assume what I can't see will show similar or worse neglect: wheel hubs, bottom bracket and headset for example. So I only buy if there is a compelling discount. Otherwise, I walk away. I have been burned in the past "hoping for the best".

So I would spend $5 on spokes, and an hour on cleanup. Or sell as it sits for half as much.

If you want max $$, disassemble it, clean it well, sell the frameset with headset on eBay, sell the Dura Ace bits separately, and donate the rest. Since the spokes have issues, I would take the wheels apart and sell the hubs, IF the cones are good.

Now if the goal is to maximize convenience, sell it as is locally via Craigslist for around $300. Of course this will leave a lot of money on the table, but you won't have to take it apart, clean it, pack and ship. Local shop in my area charges $60 to pack a bike, and IMHO, they don't pack very well. Realize no matter who packs it, YOU will be responsible for any and all damage. On eBay, buyers win all disputes. I lost one that was "item not as described". eBay ruled in sellers favor. So I called eBay and asked them: "what was NOT as described." They had no idea. I resold the item on eBay and got glowing positive feedback. But I was out shipping on the first sale both directions. Got to love eBay.

Local sale = or is close to giving it away. I am often a buyer in my town of the higher end vintage bikes as they go cheap. Very few buyers.

Don't expect eBay prices or anything remotely close either on a local sale. I've bought bikes in Florida, prices were always attractive (LOW). I haven't bought in Boca.

Last edited by wrk101; 01-25-19 at 10:33 AM.
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Old 01-25-19, 01:49 PM
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Take it to a bike shop for a good cleaning & tune-up, and to get it packed, and you'll be into it more than $100... perhaps even $200, plus shipping, bringing the cost of using the bike shop for E-Bay up to maybe $250. Of course, some will be borne by the customer, but the customer pays the price delivered to the house.

If you can do the work yourself, then great.

If not, you're probably just as well off starting around, say $400 for a local sale.

Push the "Made in the USA Waterford", and "Custom Paint Job" aspects of the bike.

It is possible that a customer will choose to change the rims rather than repairing the current wheels.
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Old 01-29-19, 05:56 PM
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Thank you for all the replies. It is much appreciated. I'll probably try and find someone locally who wants to (fix it up and) use it. You've given me some idea how many coins would be reasonable for the exchange.
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