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Windsor International

Old 09-02-19, 08:28 PM
  #1  
sherwin
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Windsor International

Trying to sell two Windsor International road bikes I purchased back in the 70's. Not much mileage on them. Used them for bike camping and they are rigged with front and back panniers, included in the sale. Bike has
18 gears. Put on Kevlar tires. A few scratches, but basically looks ok. Added padded seat covers for more comfort. Grey bike has rear view mirror and hand pump. Not many miles of usage. What can I expect to get for them? Included are photos.
photos.
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Old 09-02-19, 09:20 PM
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I’m not the best person to give a value; however, nothing says low-end louder than stem mounted shifters. Maybe safety brake levers are second, folded padded saddle covers third, kickstands fourth.

In Seattle,on CL, any bike that’s capable of a test ride has a $200 asking minimum. And many with the above features stay on CL for a long time.

GLWS
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Old 09-02-19, 09:34 PM
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Welcome to the forums. The International was Windsor's bottom of the line model.. These aren't really grand touring touring bicycles. Things like the very small size, stamped dropouts, stem shifters, safety levers, lack of bottle bosses and proper rack mounts will alienate a lot of potential buyers. I think most of the value is in the desirable TA cranks, racks and panniers. Assuming local sale in an average market, that the panniers aren't rotted and the racks are good but nothing special, I think you're looking at ~$150-$175.
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Old 09-03-19, 04:09 AM
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I don't have any trouble selling small frames. They appeal to smaller men and women as well.

I find buyers want bikes as road ready as possible and for those bikes, look to a general market, not touring. I would remove the panniers and sell them separately. Rewrap the bars and remove the saddle covers, assuming the saddles are good. Try to get better photos and edit them.

In my area I woud ask $150 each, but be willing to reprice and/or negotiate. And don't worry about the safety levers or kickstands. The market you are targeting likes them.
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Old 09-03-19, 06:50 AM
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Windsor International

How much can I expect from the saddle bags?

Are you suggesting I also remove the racks and sell them for how much?

Sherwin
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Old 09-03-19, 06:55 AM
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what part of the world do you live in?
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Old 09-03-19, 12:01 PM
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Windsor International

I live in the Chicago Illinois area.
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Old 09-03-19, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sherwin View Post
How much can I expect from the saddle bags?

Are you suggesting I also remove the racks and sell them for how much?

Sherwin
This is just my opinion, but I would sell the front rack and the panniers separately. Pricing I would get from ebay sold items, and that's where I'd sell them. If the rear rack is just a rack, I'd leave it on the bike. If it's a pannier rack, I'd sell that too.

Used panniers can fetch anywhere from $15 to $100. Racks are similar. Price depends on brand and condition.
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Old 09-03-19, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by sherwin View Post
I live in the Chicago Illinois area.
Take off panniers as earlier recommended, clean them well, a bit of polish and aluminum cleaner.

List for $300, emphasizing the low miles. Chicago is a big market, lotsa fish.
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Old 09-03-19, 02:22 PM
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Windsor International

Thanks for the replies.

I thought the package of bags and the bike would appeal to people who do bicycle camping. Maybe, there is a greater market for bikes without these bags and carriers. Selling the bike with the bags would be less hassle having to sell the racks and bags separately on ebay or craig's list. I always thought this bike was a relatively light weight version compared to others. It weighs 28 lbs. The brochure from Windsor describes the components as being made of 'light alloy'. Is that a spec for aluminum or thin gauge steel? Would this bike appeal to racers or general transportation usage? I have a price of $225 on craig's list locally, but maybe they are worth more.
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Old 09-04-19, 05:56 PM
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There is absolutely no way you will get $300 for those, in my opinion. Here in NYC we have one of the hottest bike markets around, and I think I would have a hard time getting $150. They are lower end bikes and kind of beat up looking also.

I agree that you should sell the racks and bags separately.

I see that you have listed them on this website. Please be aware that the values we are giving you here are not the prices people around here will pay. People around here are very savvy and look for very good deals, or things that are very special, and I don't want to be harsh, but this really is neither of those.
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Old 09-04-19, 10:34 PM
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Windsor International

Seems like I'm getting two values. The West Coast people think the bikes are worth more than the Brooklyn poster. Maybe, it depends on the location for the market value.

If I were shopping for a bike myself, the last thing I would consider is if there is a nice shinny paint job. This may be the lower price end of Windsor, but that doesn't mean it is a poorly constructed bike. The AM5 shares many of the components and features of their Professional model. Also, I have upgraded this bike converting it to a 6 speed and replacing the tires with puncture resistant Kevlars. High on my list would be the mechanical condition of the bike for worn or broken parts.

Sherwin
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Old 09-05-19, 04:06 AM
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Originally Posted by sherwin View Post
Seems like I'm getting two values. The West Coast people think the bikes are worth more than the Brooklyn poster. Maybe, it depends on the location for the market value.

If I were shopping for a bike myself, the last thing I would consider is if there is a nice shinny paint job. This may be the lower price end of Windsor, but that doesn't mean it is a poorly constructed bike. The AM5 shares many of the components and features of their Professional model. Also, I have upgraded this bike converting it to a 6 speed and replacing the tires with puncture resistant Kevlars. High on my list would be the mechanical condition of the bike for worn or broken parts.

Sherwin
The way I look at bikes is a bit different. I can replace the brakes, the saddle, the rims, the tires, the bars, etc., etc.. What it needs in the way of these parts goes into the cost/value relationship and may become bargaining points. But the one basic that I can't easily replace is a good frame, meaning no rust, no dents, good paint. That goes a long way for me in determining value.

Let us know what you end up selling it for.
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Old 09-05-19, 07:45 AM
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You've gotten some excellent advice by knowledgeable folks.

I saw your ad in the sales section, and $300/ea is unreasonable for these lower level bikes, no matter the local market. The hottest vintage market of Portland Oregon might get you get $200/ea in their current state.

I would ... remove all the racks and bags, remove the saddle covers, pull up the seatpost on the slammed one, sort the sloppy cable routing, sort the chain issue, take tons of excellent pics (not in direct sunlight), list for $150/ea, and accept reasonable offers.

Or part-out. As already mentioned, the valuable stuff is in the cranksets, derailleurs, and possibly the wheels.
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Old 09-05-19, 12:45 PM
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Originally Posted by sherwin View Post
Seems like I'm getting two values. The West Coast people think the bikes are worth more than the Brooklyn poster. Maybe, it depends on the location for the market value.

If I were shopping for a bike myself, the last thing I would consider is if there is a nice shinny paint job. This may be the lower price end of Windsor, but that doesn't mean it is a poorly constructed bike. The AM5 shares many of the components and features of their Professional model. Also, I have upgraded this bike converting it to a 6 speed and replacing the tires with puncture resistant Kevlars. High on my list would be the mechanical condition of the bike for worn or broken parts.

Sherwin
It definitely depends on location. In the middle of nowhere, these would be worth less than $100. In NYC or SF, probably more like $150.

Frame condition, including paint, is the most important thing, after frame quality. Parts are secondary. As a general rule upgrades don't add much if anything to the value of a bike. Some of the "upgrades," such as the seat covers, make the bike look worse.

In this case, the cranksets have some value. If I saw these bikes at $100, I might buy them, remove the crankset, replace it with something else that I don't want, and sell them for $100 again. This is to illustrate that the value of the parts doesn't matter that much.

Nobody is saying the bikes are poorly constructed. But they are lower end, and they're not in great condition. East Coast or West, $300 is very high for these. That's not to say you can't get lucky and sell them for that much. The right buyer might come along. If I sold them at that price, I would probably feel like I'd gotten away with something... I would personally list them at $150 and be willing to take less.

Again, not trying to be a jerk, just trying to provide realistic advice.
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Old 09-05-19, 01:59 PM
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If rust, dents and paint were the only criteria, you could get those at bargain prices at K-Mart.
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Old 09-05-19, 02:55 PM
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You're welcome? Seriously, you ASKED for advice. Don't get your shorts in a knot if you don't like it. Or be insulting.
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Old 09-05-19, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by sherwin View Post
If rust, dents and paint were the only criteria, you could get those at bargain prices at K-Mart.
Ok, if you're going to be like that, I'll give it to you straight:

You don't know what you're doing. You've deluded yourself somehow that these bikes are worth a lot. They aren't. People here with a lot of experience tried to help you, but instead you are sticking to your delusion. If you find someone to buy one of those bikes at $300, I will be shocked, and you will have ripped them off. Good luck, and you're welcome.
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Old 09-10-19, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sherwin View Post
If rust, dents and paint were the only criteria, you could get those at bargain prices at K-Mart.
@sherwin, I think that you may be missing the larger point. Probably, it's been lost in all of the detailed advice that you have received. The larger point is that buyers will respond to the effort that you show in your presentation of each bike.

A shiny presentation speaks of the condition and care taken on the part of the seller. These are intrinsic qualities that raise the value in the mind of the buyer. You don't have to believe this, but you are asking folks who have sold dozens and dozens of bikes.

As for whether you believe that it's too much work to remove the panniers and front racks...well, are you trying to optimize the return or not? It's sound advice even should you choose to ignore it.

Those are decent riding bikes and they'll be enjoyed by the next owners for years to come. Good luck.
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Old 09-12-19, 09:54 PM
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OMG! It's like little league parents coming to blows! :-)
Seriously, I see some cool panniers and racks and even a couple of flik-stands. Sell those separately. The bikes aren't bad. Are those Mountech rear derailleurs? But, like some of you have said, stem mounted shifters and cheater levers probably push the price down. // If I was you, I'd sell the rack/panniers/flikstands on eBay (if you sell them with the bikes, you're giving them away for nothing), and get about 125 for each bike after giving it a nice cleaning and maybe "rewrapping" the bar tape, and of course, raise the saddles to normal and dump the seatcovers and hopefully there's some nice Selle Italia Anotomic saddles under them. Just clean them up and let them go. Don't let negative comments or dollars worry you.
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