Raleigh de-badged racer info needed - w/serial number
 

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...60fdf0e86.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...f6c306c88.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0ec6cde40.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7248592a7.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...8352baca7.jpeg

Hi all,

Would love some info and ID, possibly appraisal on this recent acquisition. No info from the seller, but I thought it looked nice, and though I think it’s too big for me, I’ve never had a Reynolds 531 bike, and as I hope that’s what this is, I’m looking forward to having a ride on it.

Things I know:
Zeus dropouts, 27.2 seatpost, Raleigh binder bolt, Campy Record shifters, Suntour Suberbe crankset & pedals, front derailleur, and Suntour Cyclone rear der. Wolber Champion Gentlemen rims, Shimano hubs, Weinmann center-pulls, GB(?) stem. 5-speed freewheel w/close gears. Edit: Brooks Pro, assume the original, though I’ve never had one so I don’t know how to gauge age or condition on these.

Not sure about:
uh, age, model, I assume this is a repainted frame, don’t know if any chrome. I know nothing about lugs, but these look nice to my eye! ;) Kinda wrap-around seat stays, but not completely. It’s pretty light. Serial number is D9622- I was expecting to see two letters first,but then I read that older Carltons had a single letter, but if it’s lots newer then maybe it’s an Ireland-produced bike and not top of the line? (Or did they make Reynolds frames in Dublin too?)

Anyway, thanks for any help with this mystery!

(2nd, larger set of photos)
 

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...abcdab7ae.jpeg
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b463a2d27.jpeg
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...858ab730f.jpeg
https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...35bf9c460.jpeg
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...714bb84a1.jpeg
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...05ee4fa07.jpeg
https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...05a907b06.jpeg
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...c3bbf08c2.jpeg
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bd8a7da96.jpeg

A lot of none original stuff but my best guess for original Id would be a 70's Super Course, There are actually several nice examples right now her in the appraisel forums that you can compare to for pricing and correct components.

Most Super Courses had stamped (not forged) drop outs. The Cable stop on the seat stays isn't typical of Carlton made Raleigh frames. They would be a curved wire wth a thicker center section that was drilled for an adjusting ferrule. This one is flat metal and drllled to hold the base that the adjusting ferrule screws into. The Nervex Pro lugs do look Carlton-esque, but lots of frames were made with them. It looks more like an International or Competition than a Super Course, to my eye. Also the serial numbers were usually stamped in along the bottom of the Bottom bracket shell in the same orientation of the Bottom bracket spindle. These go around the shell. Just my $.02......



https://images.app.goo.gl/JdtE6ZZF9fTxM87s7

https://images.app.goo.gl/BeZsU8KWLjuhDeXP6

https://images.app.goo.gl/BH4BZ5cyoY8k4jPm9

Ok, I see what you mean re: the brake bridge. I’ll try to find something that matches this one.

Re: the BB, so neither Carltons nor Raleighs had serial #s going round the BB? I do see on Kirt Kaminer’s site that yes, the only photos with BB #s have them all oriented across the width of the shell... were all Carltons like that too?

And if that’s the case, then maybe this is not a Raleigh/Carlton product at all??

1 missed the different brake bridge seeing this makes think it may not be a Raliegh/Carlton bike also. The positioning and distance between the head badge holes may help in getting a better ID for this bike.

good idea- I’ll grab a pic of that view.

-----

Looks to be a Raleigh Competition of 1969-70.

You already know lugset is NERVEX Professional.

Fork crown is a BOCAMA pattern.

The frame's Zeus Gran Sport ends set was what was used on this model at this time. Some also came through with Capmpag 1010 ends.

Possible centrepull bridge was fitted post-manufacture. The slender Raleigh/Carlton centrepull bridge ofttimes failed under load.

Could be it wore one of the non-Raleigh badges although manufactured by them.

Missing headplate would have been the Anniversary.

---

Ex-works kitting -

Zeus Competition/Competicion chainset

Juy Prestige gear ensemble

Atom 700 pedals

Normandy Luxe Competition hubs (w/oilhole), Atom QR skewers

Weinmann 610/750 centreppull brakeset

Alatet headset

GB stem and GB Ventoux bar

NISI tubular rims

Brooks Pro saddle

plain alloy saddle pillar

Raleigh marked Gripfast seat binder

Renold drive chain

two finishes were offered: black w/gold trim and British Racing Green with gold trim


-----

Thanks for additional info, Juvela. So it once might have looked like this? Link to example

Who would cover up chrome lugs etc? Maybe it was in tough shape.
And what would you say re: value, assuming in cleaned, working order but with paint left as is, and maybe if i found the right head badge and added it back?
Don’t know that I want to get into a proper restore, but it sounds like a bike that’d be worth it...?

Ok, so after doing more reading it seems likely that since it’s been thoroughly painted, the chrome is gone, it is what it is now and maybe I could add decals, badging, and then sell it. I was hoping it was a 58cm, it’s too big for me (it’s a 23.5” and I usually ride a 56cm).

So I’m looking around, but interested in opinions on what to target as a sales price, whether you would spend on consumables or not, whether to keep the saddle as-is or not... thank you!

That special GB stem with the elevated perch for the bolt head - I have also seen that on an all-original 1971 professional (or international) and its a very early part. You could always check the serial number on the bottom bracket it probably say "Gnnnnn" which indicates 1972 (Fnnnnn = 1971, Ennnn = 1970, I'm guess Dnnnn = 1969). Also the saddle has a datemark on the cantle plate, and most weinmann brakesets have a datemark on the back of the bridge, check Vintage Trek Bikes- Information on Steel Road Bicycles made by the Trek Bicycle Corporation, bike for how to decode the date mark(s). All the drivetrain parts (except bars and stem) are replacements. Not surprising because your bike came with a simplex gear system, originally, and everything eventually snaps off in a simplex gear system.

I own a 1968 (anniversary badge) competition with the heron/flame head badge, and that one has a nervex BB shell, davis crown, and campagnolo dropouts, and the weird flat rear centerpull bridge made not from a semicircular tube but from a trapezoidal piece of flat metal. I believe the next year they might have used zeus dropouts. Anyway, the flat metal non-semicircular brake bridge makes your bike pre-1970.

As I said, I have this exact same frameset except with campagnolo dropouts. It was the ugliest raleigh ever (choose between stovepipe black or icky british racing green), so asap most people repainted it. My frameset cost $100 at a Los Angeles thrift shop a decade ago. Mine, I took off the braze-ons and repainted it as an RRA (1973).

....this is commonly done when chrome gets so bad from flaking.corrosion, that it's no longer practical to salvage it. Rechroming it (at leat where I am) is expensive and cost prohibitive. So you rough the chrome, remove any rust, and paint the whole thing. I've done it mostly on Italian frames, where the chrome was pretty short lived in many cases, and tended to compost itself.


...don't do this, you will never recoup whatever you invest in restoration with the chrome gone.