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Carlton or Raleigh?

Old 02-26-20, 07:20 PM
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Carlton or Raleigh?





Hi all a friend has just sent me some pictures aaking me do i want this bike.. He found it on the street with a sign on it saying " Take Me Free" he did knock on the door and was looked funny.. anyway i do see it has shimano sti a410 and some ok other parts which i think do not belong to the frame.. My interest is more in the frame i see its a 1980 worksop frame but unsure on it being a Carlton or Raleigh... also what model if possible... thankyou
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Old 02-27-20, 09:52 AM
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Very interesting. I own a Carlton Criterium and that frame has some similarities. The ends of the seat stays and the fork crown are similar to mine. The decals don't look like anything I'm used to seeing on a Carlton. It does appear to have come from the Worksop plant.
There are folks here far more expert in Carlton/Raleigh and will undoubtedly be able to help more. I will tell you that the lugs on mine are significantly different from this example.
For free, that would make a nice project. Suggest all paint be removed and give it a bath in oxalic acid.
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Old 02-27-20, 11:04 AM
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Doesn't look like an'80 frame. Horizontal dropouts (I think - hard to see on my screen). Over the chainstay RD cable. Old appearing fork crown. Rear brake cable run like a '73 Competition. By '80 everyone ran it continuous on top of the top tube. Yes, long point lugs which started early '70s.

Carleton was purchased by Raleigh mid-late sixties and made bikes both for Raleigh and under their own name for quite a while. My '73 Raleigh Competition was made by Carleton as was announced by one decal; the rest being standard Raleigh. So when you ask Carleton or Raleigh? Well, it certainly is a Carleton; that decal tells us that. Raleigh? Did Carleton build it for Raleigh and a later owner pull off the decals. (That probably happened a few times. Many think of Carleton as a higher class name than the ubiquitous Raleigh.) Your bike has Carleton fork decals and headbadge. I'd put money on it being a '74 Carleton, not Raleigh (though technically it IS a Raleigh, Raleigh owning Carleton.)

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Old 02-27-20, 04:49 PM
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-----

Lug pattern is BOCAMA Professional which is certainly not long point.

Headset appears Raleigh 26TPI which suggests frame could not be above the level of a Super Course.

Looks like it could be turned into a right serviceable mount with a bit of work.

Estimate earliest possible date for the Sakae Ringyo chainset to be about 1974.

May have been the Carlton model parallel to the Raleigh Super Gran Prix.
-----
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Old 02-27-20, 07:18 PM
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harmonixx -

Looks like a Carlton. It is not a Carlton Criterium or the badge engineered Raleigh Super Grand Prix equivalent because the lugs are wrong for those models. That style of head lug and fork crown were used on the Carlton Pro Am in the UK and on the earlier Raleigh Super Course here in North America. Check under the head tube decal. If there are 3 holes it is a Raleigh of some sort but if no holes or 2 then it's a Carlton. As a Carlton,your bike would probably have looked like the catalogue photo below:


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Old 02-28-20, 08:51 PM
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thankyou for the replies. It has been a bit of a quandry considering it looks much more like am early 70's Carlton than a 80's Carlton which are a different beast in its own right and started to look more like a raleigh before the end of carlton. I have looked at the pro am 12 uk model and i do think you are right as its basicaly the same frame. i am starting to strip it as we speak and turn it into the pro am 12.
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Old 03-01-20, 10:46 PM
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harmonixx-

Try the Carlton Cycles of Worksop group on Facebook. Very knowledgeable people who can certainly offer advice and encouragement during the rebuild. Decals are available for the PRO-Am here: https://bicycledecals.net/carltondecals.htm




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Old 02-24-24, 11:47 AM
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Good observation on the late 1970s Super Grand Prix. I think it's similar to a 1979 Super Course - one model up with
  • alloy pedals
  • alloy seatpost
  • suede saddle vs. Super Grand Prix)
  • forged dropouts (nope - looks more like a Super Grand Prix in this respect)
  • 26 lbs - same for Super Course and Super Grand Prix

They couldn't use the RALEIGH-pantograph crankset or rear mech so they used an SR Silstar crankset and regular Suntour VxT instead.
No reynolds fork on any of the three bike which is a big downgrade to ride quality v.s. gran sport (the traditional bocama professional frameset)

https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalog...ro_superbe.jpg

Originally Posted by juvela
-----

Lug pattern is BOCAMA Professional which is certainly not long point.

Headset appears Raleigh 26TPI which suggests frame could not be above the level of a Super Course.

Looks like it could be turned into a right serviceable mount with a bit of work.

Estimate earliest possible date for the Sakae Ringyo chainset to be about 1974.

May have been the Carlton model parallel to the Raleigh Super Gran Prix.
-----
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Old 02-24-24, 12:20 PM
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I have a Carlton rebadged as a Raleigh. My guess is that Raleigh bought the Carlton business out and rebadged, rather than repaint etc., just to sell off what they had...



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Old 02-27-24, 02:42 PM
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Based on the info it is Carlton built in the Raliegh Nottingham workshop circa 74-79 as for model it could be a creterion or catalina hard to tell. Very nice frame for a slightrly lesser bike I really like most of the workshop frame sets pretty sure this one is Raliegh tubed on par with 531 and fully tempered forge finished so a pretty good frame. So worth taking if your interested in the frame these make great riders only minor issue is it may take a Raliegh whitworth threaded BB with offset not a big issue if the cups are good you can loose ball it and just put a different axel and crank on the bike if desired.
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Old 02-27-24, 08:27 PM
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Actually I'm intrigued by this four-year-old thread if only to ask: Did the OP's bike ever get rebuilt, refurbished, even restored?
Originally Posted by harmonixx
I have looked at the pro am 12 uk model and i do think you are right as its basicaly the same frame. i am starting to strip it as we speak and turn it into the pro am 12.
If there's an update I'd be interested in seeing it.
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