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another Raleigh Lenton - 1958/59? Rudge Pathfinder Grand Prix

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another Raleigh Lenton - 1958/59? Rudge Pathfinder Grand Prix

Old 08-10-20, 01:15 PM
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another Raleigh Lenton - 1958/59? Rudge Pathfinder Grand Prix

Picked this up out of sheer curiosity, and from the light cleaning i've tried it's looking like it might be in better shape than expected. No idea what to do with this - I can clean/tweak it, but I'm not going past those cotter pins! Grateful for any pointers on how/what to do with this, or who might be a better home for it.






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Old 08-10-20, 01:29 PM
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This bike is beautiful. It shouldn't be difficult to sell it in NYC for FMV without having to go through eBay. Others can speak to its value but it is in great shape given its age.
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Old 08-10-20, 02:38 PM
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-----

A most marvelous find to be in such all original condition and without sign of damage/abuse.

There are many out there who would be delighted to take this in for refurbishment.


-----
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Old 08-10-20, 03:14 PM
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Thank you - I will (gently!) clean it up best I can to better show its condition and hopefully someone will get excited for it. Must confess I got excited for it when I met it, but not knowing anything about Lentons I probably paid way too much for it!

Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

A most marvelous find to be in such all original condition and without sign of damage/abuse.

There are many out there who would be delighted to take this in for refurbishment.


-----
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Old 08-10-20, 03:25 PM
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In my world, a bike like that, offered to me for $500.00 CND would already be in my stuffed work shop. That said, if you have any interest in vintage bicycles and if the bike presented is a good fit, I would try to get past the antiquated technology thing.

I was lucky enough to discover that older bikes can be even more fun to restore and ride. As for cotter pins - only a matter of having the right tool and applying the proper procedure. That said...

Few cranks offer the visual appeal of a shiny old cottered one (my opinion, of course)...
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Old 08-10-20, 03:49 PM
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...that's in remarkably good condition. Must not have been used much. I gave someone down near Petaluma $600 for this one, a Raleigh that is roughly equivalent, about ten or 12 years ago. I didn't get around to overhauling and "restoring" it until a couple of years ago. Cotter pins are not a big deal if you use the right tools and technique, even ones that have been in place that long.

I kind of updated the wheels/tyres on mine, because I wanted to ride it, but there are many people searching for this sort of bicycle with the original stuff on it. You just have to connect with them.

You might try getting an upgraded seller's accoiunt here for a month or three and see if you get any interest in the C+V for sale section. And there are a bunch of sellers and buyers of older bikes like this over on the CABE.

Bikes like this really are more of a labor of love at this point. But if you start searching on e-bay, I think you'll be surprised to see what some of the components are listed for (I don't know if anyone buys them at those prices.) I wanted to take advantage of the mostly original paint and decals on mine, so with the frame stripped, I painted it with clear urethane. There are many classic bike aficionados who look askance at that sort of thing, so since you're not planning on keeping it, I son't go into the gory details.

Sweet bike from a bygone era. Here's one photo of mine, so you can see the resemblance in construction and components.

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Old 08-10-20, 03:51 PM
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AS originally received, it looked like this:

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Old 08-10-20, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by randyjawa View Post
In my world, a bike like that, offered to me for $500.00 CND would already be in my stuffed work shop. That said, if you have any interest in vintage bicycles and if the bike presented is a good fit, I would try to get past the antiquated technology thing.

I was lucky enough to discover that older bikes can be even more fun to restore and ride. As for cotter pins - only a matter of having the right tool and applying the proper procedure. That said...

Few cranks offer the visual appeal of a shiny old cottered one (my opinion, of course)...
thanks Randy - I think i was traumatised by cotters as a kid, doing all my own repairs with a hammer in order to get to school. I'll ride this beauty but I can't bring myself to wrench on it.
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Old 08-10-20, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...that's in remarkably good condition. Must not have been used much. I gave someone down near Petaluma $600 for this one, a Raleigh that is roughly equivalent, about ten or 12 years ago. I didn't get around to overhauling and "restoring" it until a couple of years ago. Cotter pins are not a big deal if you use the right tools and technique, even ones that have been in place that long.

I kind of updated the wheels/tyres on mine, because I wanted to ride it, but there are many people searching for this sort of bicycle with the original stuff on it. You just have to connect with them.

You might try getting an upgraded seller's accoiunt here for a month or three and see if you get any interest in the C+V for sale section. And there are a bunch of sellers and buyers of older bikes like this over on the CABE.

Bikes like this really are more of a labor of love at this point. But if you start searching on e-bay, I think you'll be surprised to see what some of the components are listed for (I don't know if anyone buys them at those prices.) I wanted to take advantage of the mostly original paint and decals on mine, so with the frame stripped, I painted it with clear urethane. There are many classic bike aficionados who look askance at that sort of thing, so since you're not planning on keeping it, I son't go into the gory details.

Sweet bike from a bygone era. Here's one photo of mine, so you can see the resemblance in construction and components.
Thanks for the background - I think I'll clean it up enough to try riding it (mechanicals are all sound and bearings seem smooth so far) just to get the experience. Then I might do just that via the Sales subforum, unless this thing shoots cupid arrows at me in the meantime. (and in the meantime if I stumble across a copy of the Rough Stuff Fellowship book, it'll be a sign...)
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Old 08-10-20, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by niliraga View Post
Thanks for the background - I think I'll clean it up enough to try riding it (mechanicals are all sound and bearings seem smooth so far) just to get the experience. Then I might do just that via the Sales subforum, unless this thing shoots cupid arrows at me in the meantime. (and in the meantime if I stumble across a copy of the Rough Stuff Fellowship book, it'll be a sign...)
...if you really want to get sucked in on these, there's an extensive history article (with lots of photos) on the Raleigh Lentons here. It was put together with much research and effort by Peter Kohler, a form member here, who likes them, I think. If you want to ride it, the tyre pressures you can use with those original, non hook bead rims are fairly low. I think it's marked on the tyre sidewalls. So be careful in inflating them. If it's the same as mine, the original rims were "Special Dunlop Stainless Lightweight." They are definitely not light in comparison to any rim you're used to, so riding on those wheels and tyres will feel a little like pedaling in mud.

AS stated, they are (for some reason I can't fathom), desirable to a certain segment of the "all original restoration" guys. Me, I want something I can ride around town without feeling like I'm dragging an anchor. They also share the general bad braking characteristics of steel bike rims. So all in all, something I don't personally miss much. Also, you will quickly discover that steel bar and stem, and steel seatpost, while pretty commonly used for many years, and original equipment on these bikes, seem to weigh a ton when you are a spoiled brat cyclist in the 21st Century, accustomed to aluminum alloy components. It's great exercise hauling them around, though.
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Old 08-13-20, 12:56 PM
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Rudge! One of my grail frames!!
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Old 08-13-20, 01:13 PM
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What's the size? You won't have any problem selling it on the C&V for sale forum.
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Old 08-13-20, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by niliraga View Post
Picked this up out of sheer curiosity, and from the light cleaning i've tried it's looking like it might be in better shape than expected. No idea what to do with this - I can clean/tweak it, but I'm not going past those cotter pins! Grateful for any pointers on how/what to do with this, or who might be a better home for it.






H**Y CRAP!!!

This is fantastic, like Randy, I would already have this and be gently coaxing everything apart to massage back to the most glory I could.

Wish it was my size, I would be stripping gears trying to get this.

This is the deep end, dive, dive!
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Old 08-13-20, 07:21 PM
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...on sizing for these: IIRC, back in ancient times we only saw them in 21" (most common) and 23" frames. I'm uncertain if that was all they made, or that was just what got imported to the US. The Raleigh Sports bikes that got sold most places were in the same boat.

So those of us (like me), who prefer a 24" frame made do with the 23" frame. It's not that hard to get one to fit, because there's a lot of stem adjustment leeway in the up and down direction, the seat posts were usually long (if not, the proper size post in longer length is readily available, and the geometry and wheel base is pretty long, so long top tube relative to the frame's seat tube.

When I fitted mine to my needs, I used a longer extension stem I had in the miscellaneous stems box. Also, the 27 inch wheels they came with give more stand over height than the bikes like the sports with 26x1 3/8 tyres and wheels.

The longer geometry is deceptive in photos, because the head tubes are short relative to size. So they look smaller than they are. I think the bike in the photos is a 23" model.
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Old 08-14-20, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...on sizing for these: IIRC, back in ancient times we only saw them in 21" (most common) and 23" frames. I'm uncertain if that was all they made, or that was just what got imported to the US. The Raleigh Sports bikes that got sold most places were in the same boat.

So those of us (like me), who prefer a 24" frame made do with the 23" frame. It's not that hard to get one to fit, because there's a lot of stem adjustment leeway in the up and down direction, the seat posts were usually long (if not, the proper size post in longer length is readily available, and the geometry and wheel base is pretty long, so long top tube relative to the frame's seat tube.

When I fitted mine to my needs, I used a longer extension stem I had in the miscellaneous stems box. Also, the 27 inch wheels they came with give more stand over height than the bikes like the sports with 26x1 3/8 tyres and wheels.

The longer geometry is deceptive in photos, because the head tubes are short relative to size. So they look smaller than they are. I think the bike in the photos is a 23" model.
I can confirm this one is 57cm square, c-t-c (apologies to the ghosts of Nottingham for quoting metric). It was not sold in the US - sellers indicated that Dad had been stationed in Germany around the time of Korean war, and brought it back as a personal import.

Gotta say I'm enjoying the slow careful cleaning/checking in my spare moments - plenty of grime all over, which has probably saved it these last years, and most of the chrome rust is surface dusting that yields to wadding polish & a fingernail. Tires appear contemporary and holding air better than most of my others, so there's that.

And the technical surprises keep coming... just realized that the wheelset is spoked 40 & 32, and the spokes are double-butted. In the days ahead I will cut off those Grab-Ons and continue... anything I should be on the look-out for? I can check for date codes but from what i have read so far, the derailleur+suicide rod constrains this to 58-59-60...

rear brake cabling is pretty seized - I am tempted to pull the housings to bathe them for a day or two in a mild oxalic acid solution, then run some PTFE through and see if I can get them back workable. But I have little experience with what 60 yr old rubber can handle...
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Old 08-14-20, 11:48 AM
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You're doing some nice work on this bike but that is unlikely to increase the value much if at all if you plan to sell. I get it. I work on a lot of bikes where I know I'm not adding much if any value just because I enjoy it. But you did say you wanted to sell it.
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Old 08-14-20, 11:53 AM
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Originally Posted by merziac View Post
H**Y CRAP!!!

This is fantastic, like Randy, I would already have this and be gently coaxing everything apart to massage back to the most glory I could.

Wish it was my size, I would be stripping gears trying to get this.

This is the deep end, dive, dive!
thanks - it does seem like the very deep end, and I'm not sure how "apart" I dare coax it! but for sure these are the nicest steel rims I've ever met...


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Old 08-14-20, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
You're doing some nice work on this bike but that is unlikely to increase the value much if at all if you plan to sell. I get it. I work on a lot of bikes where I know I'm not adding much if any value just because I enjoy it. But you did say you wanted to sell it.
Totally get that - I want to get it clean enough that I (and some photos) can see the true condition underneath, and also workable enough to ride it just one wee bit. Also, I just love what I'm discovering as I work on it.

I will need to sell it, I've accepted that. NYC apartment living means that everyone here has to sing for their supper in some way and city living is tough on bikes - on 1970s stuff I know I can replace anything that gets bent, but on this I certainly cannot. I reckon it has earned a quieter, gentler retirement.
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Old 08-14-20, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by niliraga View Post
thanks - it does seem like the very deep end, and I'm not sure how "apart" I dare coax it! but for sure these are the nicest steel rims I've ever met...


...they are quite unique, and there was one guy doing a restoration of something that came with them originally who said they're difficult to find on e-bay, and expensive when you do find them. My bike came with only one, the other was a look alike Araya. I guess I could have tried to sell the one on e-bay, but I just don't like dealing with all the hassle, so I gave it to the bike co-op here. I did keep the original hubs, for possible future use on another olde project.

Because they are very shiny, and 27" rims, there are some VO (and other) highly polished alloy rims that look similar. But the new rims have a bead hook, which allows a much better tyre to be mounted and inflated to 120psi. And they are several orders of magnitude lighter. This only matters if you are intent on reworking the bike to ride more like what most of us are accustomed to. There are all sorts of people hanging out over on the CABE forums who are heavily invested in restoring old Schwinn's and Rollfast's , with balloon tyres that weigh more than some of my bicycles in their entirety. I don't get that, but I wish them well.
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Old 08-14-20, 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted by niliraga View Post

Gotta say I'm enjoying the slow careful cleaning/checking in my spare moments - plenty of grime all over, which has probably saved it these last years, and most of the chrome rust is surface dusting that yields to wadding polish & a fingernail. Tires appear contemporary and holding air better than most of my others, so there's that.
...be cautious with your inflation pressures. The rims have no bead hook, so anything over about 60-65 psi is kind of pushing it IME. It's not hard to blow the tyre right off the rim at 90.

Originally Posted by niliraga View Post
And the technical surprises keep coming... just realized that the wheelset is spoked 40 & 32, and the spokes are double-butted. In the days ahead I will cut off those Grab-Ons and continue... anything I should be on the look-out for? I can check for date codes but from what i have read so far, the derailleur+suicide rod constrains this to 58-59-60...
...they are usually found with a half step set of chainrings in the 51/49 or maybe 50/48 combination. The front shift is essentially about the same gearing change as one shift on the rear cogs. It's like a single speed, but with a little more range in terms of gearing. I think mine might have come with 49/47, and there's no option for changing the rings on it, as mine is all riveted together with the Raleigh herons. Yours has a much nicer fork crown.

If it matters, the Benelux front suicide shifting is a much better design than the Simplex stuff of the same vintage, and works much better. Cable operated front derailleurs came soon after this.

Originally Posted by niliraga View Post
rear brake cabling is pretty seized - I am tempted to pull the housings to bathe them for a day or two in a mild oxalic acid solution, then run some PTFE through and see if I can get them back workable. But I have little experience with what 60 yr old rubber can handle...
...I just replace all that stuff as routine when I redo a bike. So I'm the wrong guy to ask. On my bike, I just used the same cables and housings I use for everything else (some good quality Jagwire plastic liner housing and die drawn smooth stainless cables. I just used some acetone to remove the branding on the exterior, which takes two seconds.
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Old 08-14-20, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by niliraga View Post
Totally get that - I want to get it clean enough that I (and some photos) can see the true condition underneath, and also workable enough to ride it just one wee bit. Also, I just love what I'm discovering as I work on it.

I will need to sell it, I've accepted that. NYC apartment living means that everyone here has to sing for their supper in some way and city living is tough on bikes - on 1970s stuff I know I can replace anything that gets bent, but on this I certainly cannot. I reckon it has earned a quieter, gentler retirement.
You gotta have a wall to hang this on.
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