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New old stock Schwinn Letour wheelset value?

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New old stock Schwinn Letour wheelset value?

Old 04-15-21, 10:45 PM
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reelfishin
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New old stock Schwinn Letour wheelset value?

A buddy just gave me his old Schwinn Super Letour, circa 1979. I have everything but the wheelset. No clue what happened to the original wheels but the bike is near mint.
My question is, what should I expect to pay for a set of original wheels for it?
I watched a few used sets in so-so shape go off on fleabay for $110 to $140 recently, there's a set of nutted hub wheels that would work off a Traveler on CL in NJ,
The local bike shop told me to junk it and nothing is available for it, another shop said new wheels will be $250 plus, another shop said I'd have to convert to 700C.
If 700c is the only option, I'll let it hang on the wall till I find some used wheels. I have new tires and tubes for it here, which I bought for a bike I sold a few years ago.

The used set of Traveler wheels are $60. A bike shop has a new old stock set for $150, but its an hour ride each way.
I had figured maybe $80 to $100 for a new set of wheels for it. There's a shop out west that has just the rims, and I have a used set of hubs but when I priced spokes, they wanted $2 per spoke for even straight gauge stainless spokes and they'd have to be cut and threaded to what ever size I needed.
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Old 04-15-21, 11:43 PM
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Run an add on craigslist and see what happens. You just might be surprised at what floats to the surface. Keep in mind that there are 700c and 27" wheel sets. I am not sure which the bike takes but the wrong size might mean the brake caliper reach will not work.

The local bike shop probably does see the bike as "junk" but not us. If it is a vintage road bike you seek, then it might not be "junk". Do keep in mind that anything old can run up the cost quickly as you do the necessary work (lubrication of bottom bracket, head set and wheel hubs), truing of wheels, etc. If you can do the work yourself, the cost is small but if a shop does it, there goes the farm. Also, cables, brake pads, tires and handlebar tape can run the cost up even more.

Best of luck with the decision.
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Old 04-16-21, 11:02 AM
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I've got several older Letour, Letour II, and Super Letour models here, all use 27" wheels, the earlier Letour could have come with steel rims, but I think all the latter models had Araya or Ukai alloy rims. Later models had a nutted rear hub and quick release front. The hubs varied with the later bikes having large flange Schwinn scripted alloy hubs.
Pretty much any 27" wheel with a 120-126mm spacing will work. I've got a rear wheel off a Letour 12.2 right now and the rear hub measures 123mm wide with a 6 speed freewheel.

Bike parts have been going through the roof lately, the last few wheelsets I listed sold for well over $140 for run of the mill 27" sets.

Most bike shops here won't touch anything older, most won't touch anything they didn't sell. Many don't sell parts or do repairs these days, they have the customer leave the bike, then once a week a guy comes around who fixes bikes, sort of a roving bike mechanic. I suppose it saves them from having to hire anyone skilled in any way. (One local shop told me it limits their liability but I think it just lets them hire employees who graduated from flipping burgers).

All of the Letour models were 'Schwinn Approved' meaning they were built in Asia by Giant or Panasonic back then.
If you have the tires and frame set then fixing it is a no brainer to me. You can get brand new wheels, most through are low end Chinese made wheels for as much as what you'll likely pay for a good set of vintage wheels.
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Old 04-16-21, 01:25 PM
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I would definitely get a wheel set. Like above mentioned, go on CL, Many parts and wheel sets listed.

Depending on your location, there are always wheel sets for sale here in Boston

They can get " pricey" , but hey, that's all you need to complete the bike !!

Good Luck and post pics when you can !!
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Old 04-16-21, 03:25 PM
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Is a Letour worth spending $100 to $150 on just for a set of wheels?

I'm not near Boston, I'm closer to Philly.

The bike takes 27" wheels, I borrowed a 700C and the calipers won't reach. I have no interest in converting it to 700c, it was built with 27" and I plan to keep it that way.
I did find a guy out west with brand new rims, and I have a set of Sunshine hubs here from years ago, but between buying the rims, paying for shipping, then buying a set of spokes, I'd have nearly $300 in a set of stock wheels.

I found these listed about an hour from me:
27 in. Araya Aluminum Road Bike Wheels - $60
This set looks like what the catalog I found online shows, and I can add quick release to them by changing the axles if I need to I suppose.

and these:
27" wheels Rigida 1320 w/ Miche Competition Hubs NOS
These look really narrow, from the pics I find the Schwinn took a wider rim.
This seller had five pair of Araya rims with Shimano hubs listed as well for $175, but they were gone almost over night. I did find a shop though with a pair for sale for $150 but its further away.


I like the $60 set for the price, and they came from a similar model and year but I think the Super Letour called for Q/R hubs.
I don't see a matched set anywhere close to that price and its a fraction of building something. I just wasn't expecting to spend $60 on wheels though. The last time I bought two new wheels at a bike shop it was only $45 but that's been about 30 years ago or so now I suppose.
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Old 04-17-21, 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted by reelfishin View Post
Is a Letour worth spending $100 to $150 on just for a set of wheels?

I'm not near Boston, I'm closer to Philly.

The bike takes 27" wheels, I borrowed a 700C and the calipers won't reach. I have no interest in converting it to 700c, it was built with 27" and I plan to keep it that way.
I did find a guy out west with brand new rims, and I have a set of Sunshine hubs here from years ago, but between buying the rims, paying for shipping, then buying a set of spokes, I'd have nearly $300 in a set of stock wheels.

I found these listed about an hour from me:
27 in. Araya Aluminum Road Bike Wheels - $60
This set looks like what the catalog I found online shows, and I can add quick release to them by changing the axles if I need to I suppose.

and these:
27" wheels Rigida 1320 w/ Miche Competition Hubs NOS
These look really narrow, from the pics I find the Schwinn took a wider rim.
This seller had five pair of Araya rims with Shimano hubs listed as well for $175, but they were gone almost over night. I did find a shop though with a pair for sale for $150 but its further away.


I like the $60 set for the price, and they came from a similar model and year but I think the Super Letour called for Q/R hubs.
I don't see a matched set anywhere close to that price and its a fraction of building something. I just wasn't expecting to spend $60 on wheels though. The last time I bought two new wheels at a bike shop it was only $45 but that's been about 30 years ago or so now I suppose.
That $60 wheel set is a deal. Keep in mind that $45 thirty years calculates to about $87.50 in 2021 dollars. If it were near me I would snap that up. That would at least get you riding that Schwinn while searching for the perfect wheels you seek. Then you could resell that set to me
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Old 04-17-21, 11:20 AM
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You can always get new wheel sets in 27"X1 1/4 from internet sellers like Bikewagon, ebay, amazon, and just keep for spares when you need them.
https://indianapolis.craigslist.org/...302440541.html
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Old 04-17-21, 01:49 PM
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Your likely to spend the same amount or more whether you mail order new rims and pay for shipping, vs. buying a set locally

I've had several Letour and Traveler models over the years, most Travelers came with steel wheels, the plain Letour came with nutted hubs and alloy rims, later models got a front Q/R axle. The hubs at first were steel, then when the Super Letour came out they got the large flange "Schwinn Approved" alloy hubs with a Q/R axle up front.
I've converted the older hubs over to Q/R by simply changing the axle and cones. All of the Letour models I've owned over the years had Araya w/o rims.
So that $60 pair is likely a dead match for your bike.
Its been kind of a feeding frenzy lately when it comes to bikes and bike parts.
Last summer I sold off a whole bunch of my extra wheelsets, none went for under $120. I like to keep a few new old stock wheelsets around just in case. I just laced up a pair of new old stock Araya rims on Shimano h/f hubs with DT Stainless spokes for just over $290 in cost. (I paid $50 each for the rims, I had a shop in Philly cut and thread the spokes for me at $2 each, and the two hubs cost me $50. It was still less than what I sold a similar set for last summer.
Bike parts prices have shot way up lately and the parts for these old bikes are getting scarce. Its been 28 years since they made any version of that rim, bike shops don't stock parts, and they haven't made the H/F hubs since the late 70's. The two hubs I bought were new in the package Shimano 333 with Q/R axles and skewers. All of this is not counting the gas to drive to Philly to get the spokes or my time putting the wheels together. Then I bought two new tires and tubes for them, a set of Michelin 27x1 1/4" tires and two Kenda tubes for another $88 The tires were $31 each, the tubes were $10 each plus sales tax. They were the only decent 27" tire I could find in stock anywhere. (I actually bought four pairs to have them in the future because several shops told me they were not making them anymore).

A friend of mine who works at a Dick's store said they sold out of bikes back in June of last year and have only had a small trickle of new stock since then, and when something comes in, its gone in minutes. He said a few buyers were buying everything and taking it up to NY to resell. They since put a one bike limit, and a two tire limit in place.
I had one buyer on CL show up and buy 12 pair of wheels I had, he even talked me out of a few I didn't really want to sell but cash talks.
He left me with some new found storage space a big chunk of cash in my pocket.

Its slowed down a bit lately but I'd figure those wheels on CL you posted won't be there for long.
Have you contacted the seller to see if he even still has them?
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Old 04-18-21, 12:42 PM
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There should be plenty of options if you look around, think of it as a quest. I have a few sets of 27” wheels on different bikes and really like them. I see them on CL every once in a while , also on eBay. The local co-op if you have one would be another option. I have even found nice wheels at swap meets for $15! I recently rebuilt my mailman’s Le Tour 4 that he bought new . It had chromed steel wheels that were a bit stubborn to true but in mint condition. After rebuilding the bike I took it on a short ride to test it as he knows nothing about bikes and I wanted it perfect so he would ride it. Other than being very heavy it was nice to ride and climbed the hills behind my house like a goat! He loves it. Don’t listen to any nay sayers , if YOU like it , it is worth doing.
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Old 04-19-21, 12:01 AM
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I've never seen a bike swap meet anywhere around here. I know there's one out in PA but its something like a 3 hour ride from here.

I have someone who wants to swap me for a new old stock Raleigh Super Grand Prix that's missing its derailleurs and shifters. He said I can keep the derailleurs off the Schwinn if I want because he says the Suntour Cyclone derailleurs don't belong on it anyway. He basically only wants the chrome frame, fork and cranks.
The Raleigh is a sharper looking bike and it would give me a complete bike, but I'm not too thrilled about the 700c wheels and oddball presta valve stems.
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Old 04-19-21, 02:57 AM
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Because the Le Tour has CENTERPULL brakes that are generally deemed better than SIDEPULLS as seen on VARSITY-SUBURBAN or the COLLEGIATE, you might find this as too much of a "backwards" move but as you know, the 597mm(26 inch x 1 3/8 ...37-597 ) COLLEGIATE has LONGER REACH Weinmann side pulls that should allow one to easily fit 700C wheels. ( WEINMANN L.S. 2.8 "markings seen on 1969 and later Collegiate side pulls") (Weinmann model 810 "markings seen on 1968 and earlier Collegiate side pulls) The model 810 -and- L.S. 2.8 are exactly the same. The L.S. is just an internal Schwinn code seen on all 1969 and later Chicago offerings that gave the coded size for the reach needed for the particular model..............L.S. 2.4 was the model of sidepull seen on the 630mm (27) Varsity & Suburban.
There are some people who are able to run 700C (622mm) wheels on electroforged VARSITY/Suburban frames with the stock L.S. 2.4 sidepulls as there is a wide enough slot to allow the pads to mount low enough in the slot to reach. The coded size isn't something straightforward like you might think!! The TWO left of the decimal stands for two inches and the number to the right of decimal gets multiplied by 3/32---------------------------thus four X 3/32= 12/32 or 3/8------------thus the L.S. 2.4 has a 2 3/8 inches length from the center of the caliper mounting bolt to the center of the brake arm slot.
The L.S. 2.8 sidepull of the Collegiate would be uncoded as 2 24/32 or 2 3/4.........................so 2 3/4 inches length from the center of the caliper mounting bolt to the center of the brake arm slot on the Collegiate's side pull.
Yes, understandibly, you may not wish to change brake calipers to something of an antique ancient sidepull. Properly adjusted with acceptable brake pads, the ancient Weinmann sidepulls will adequately do the job if you never see speeds in excess of 25mph.

Millions of bikes in the seventies 10 speeds and early 1980's 10 and 12 speeds were built with 27 inch (630mm) wheels which will fit your old Le Tour. Sure, perhaps decent clean wheels might be more difficult to locate because since March 2020 (the start of the Pandemic "Lock-Down") everybody has been piecing together old bicycles to ride from the best parts of several or more beater/parts/junk bikes because demand for bicycles has exceeded the supply of new bikes for more than the past year now.
Bikes that haven't seen the road in three or four decades have been again made road-ready to satisfy the Pandemic BIKE BOOM, thus you might have a tougher time than normal in finding a clean set of decent used aluminum 27 (630mm) wheels!
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Old 04-19-21, 06:22 PM
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From what I've seen around my way is that prices are way up do to the pandemic boom but I don't see much selling around here.
I've listed dozen of wheelsets over the past year, all new old stock, and gotten zero takers locally. I get hundreds of emails from those in the cities, (NYC and Phila) but not a single person ever made the hour drive from either to buy anything. I keep getting people who want me to deliver for free because they don't drive or can't afford the gas.
I have no interest in shipping anything, so if they really want it, they'll have to drive.
Price wise wheels are up because the cost of parts are way up, it'll cost far more than $150 to build up a set of decent 27" wheels, more with new old stock parts.

If I was offered to trade a wheel-less Letour for a clean Raleigh Super Grand Prix, I'd jump on that deal in a hurry. The Raleigh is a sharp looking bike and likely a bit lighter than the Schwinn. The last SGP I had was in the 27 lb range in a 25.5" frame size. the first year for those was still an English built bike, I think latter versions were imported from Asia. You would be trading something that will cost you money to ride vs something that will only take some assembly. To me that's a no-brainer.
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Old 04-21-21, 12:44 PM
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Wait, reading through this, you have a near mint chrome Super Le Tour that just needs wheels?
Yeah I would gladly trade you a Raleigh Super GP for that all day long! Rebuilt one of those for my brother a couple of years back, great riding bike, stunning in chrome, and the Suntour Cyclones shift better then whatever came on the bike, probably why they are there.
Nothing special about the Raleigh, other then you can ride it right now. My suggestion would be to follow poster #2 and be patient, some wheels will turn up.
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Old 04-21-21, 05:29 PM
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I have a few wheel sets. PM me if you are interested
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Old 04-22-21, 03:27 AM
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I sort of figured the Raleigh Super Grand Prix was the better bike, its lighter, its got better looking lug work, and its made in England, not Asia.

Its also likely lighter than the Schwinn. The SGP feels like its about 4 pounds lighter than the Schwinn, even with its wheels and tires.

Both are the same size frame.

He's also got a Nishiki International, but its not that nice, and it feels super heavy, heavier than either of the other two bikes.
Not that weight is all that important, I'd rather this Schwinn was a more classic Varsity than a Super Letour. I have a set of S6 wheels for one of those.

Both the Schwinn and the SGP have similar features, both are lugged frames, the Schwinn fork has a stamped steel crown, the Raleigh has a forged or cast crown, both have full cable braze ons. The Raleigh has a nicer looking stem and handle bars, the Schwinn stem looks a bit clunky and the bars are really wide. The Schwinn has side pull brakes, the SGP has c/p brakes.
The top tube is longer on the Schwinn, as is the wheelbase.
Both are set up with Suntour bar end shifters, I think its stock on the Raleigh, but someone most likely added it to the Schwinn. He doesn't want either set, he just wants the frame, fork, headset, and BB.
The Schwinn has steel chainrings, the Raleigh has alloy rings, both have swedged style right crank arms.

My take was that the two models were pretty much in the same category, the SGP was one under the Super Course, which with a 531 frame, I'd put it above the SL12.2.
The SGP in fact seem set up the same as a same year Super Course right down to the wheels and derailleurs. I also like the idea of the Cyclone derailleurs, its a model I used to run back in the day and I've still got a bunch of spares around.

From what I see, the SGP was closer to a Super Course than a Grand Prix or Record. The SGP has a 68mm bb too, the same as the Super Letour.

I've not made the trade because the tires on the Raleigh are likely older, and the new tires I have here are 27" and won't fit the Raleigh.

I did find two sets of new old stock wheels, one is the Araya/Shimano HF set in Philly, the other is a set of Weinmann 17-630 rims with dimpled spokes with Normandy hubs and a pair of new Cycle pro 27x1 1/8" skinwall tires for $250. (he had five pair listed but only has one left as of yesterday). The Araya set is still $200, with no tires. Neither is a very high end set of rims, but likely a good match for the Schwinn. I'm just not looking to spend big money on this thing.

Someone offered me $300 for the Schwinn as it sits, I may just dump it and pocket the cash. I think I'd rather have $300 in my pocket than a bike hanging in the garage that needs $200 worth of wheels.
I can always revive my old Ross 10 speed and ride that if I want too i suppose.

Who made the Super Letour 12.2? The guy who made me the offer seems to think it was made by Panasonic?
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Old 04-22-21, 09:54 AM
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Pretty sure it’s Panasonic, when Schwinn production moved out of house that was their first stop, building up Giant and China Bicycle Co to what they are today, was their next act.
Yeah the chrome adds a bit of weight, but I’d take the Panasonic built frame over that late 70s SGP, just from the build quality standpoint, Supercourse was 531, the SGP most definitely not. SL 12.2 the more valuable bike even without the wheels, try and get close to $300 for complete SGP. Speaking of weight, following your posts, this seem to be an issue for you, then you mention the Varsity, cause you have the wheels, so let’s throw that out the window.

I think your real issue is that you don’t want to spend any money on the Schwinn to make it ridable. If your not into that bike, take the money and run, 300 dollars is not a bad offer, if it’s really that mint, you could probably get more, but that would take some effort on your part. Not much chance of getting a quality chrome frame anymore, pretty much limited to what is actually out there.
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Old 04-22-21, 11:30 AM
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I had a chrome Super Letour 12.2 here about two years ago, it came from an estate sale and looked like it had never been ridden. It still had the hang tag on it. I went through it real quick, I serviced all the bearings, gave it two new tires and listed it for $250 on CL and FB here. It sat for a year with no takers, not even a tire kicker. I finally dumped it for $125 to get it out of my way. It was a 23" frame.
Raleigh sells faster, but not great here. it has to be cheap.
The Letour, Traveler, and a few others started out being Panasonic but were later built by Giant. Those built by Giant usually retained Giant numbers on the dropouts. I think the Panasonic models had their date codes on the headbadge.
Personally, I'd rather own the Raleigh, both for fit and finish.
The Super Grand Prix was a short lived model from England, I think they were only around for a year or two before they went to Asia. I avoid that period when they were from Taiwan.
I've had SGP's that were like Super Courses with all BSA threading, and I've had a few that were like Grand Prix's with the wider BB and Raleigh threads throughout.
I got the impression that they may have used some older Super Course framesets to build either the first or last SGPs in 1978. I have one here right now with all BSA threading and a 68mm BB shell. It came out of the box with Cyclone gear changers, Suntour freewheel, barcon shifters, and English everything else. Its identical in nearly every way to a 1977 Super Course, including in the weight of the bare frame. That bike also came through with alloy chain rings, the same as a Super Course.
I think they were just being put together in those last days of UK production with whatever parts they had on hand. The SC had changed for 1978, and they likely had some '77 frames left so they used them up as the SGP. Those that had the larger BB shell were tanks, basically just Grand Prix models with better derailleurs and 700c wheels. The tire clearance shows that too. Those with the 72mm BB shell have two 750 mm reach c/p calipers, those with the 68mm bsa shell have one 750 and one 650 caliper.
I have both a 1977 SC and a 1978 SGP here right now, both weigh within a few ounces of one another, both 25.5" frames. The SC has low flange Mailard hubs, the SGP has large flange Normandy hubs, both have the same Weinmann concave rims. Both use identical cranksets, both have 14-28 Suntour freewheels, both have barcon shifters. The SC has a Cyclone rear derailleur, and a Suntour Comp V front, the SGP has a Raleigh branded rear derailleur that looks to be a Suntour VXGT in all alloy, and a Suntour Vx front derailleur.
Both have padded leather Raleigh Scripted saddles that look to be rebadged Selle Royale models, Both have Raleigh scripted Atom alloy pedals. I bought the SGP new myself in 1979 as a left over, the SC belonged to my brother who bought it new in early 1977. I've known both bikes since new, I worked at the dealer that sold them at the time.
It was common for those bikes to have different equipment than was advertised in the brochure. That was especially the case with the more popular models.
The SGP was a big step up from the GP. The GP came with plastic Simiplex derailleurs and plastic Simplex d/t shifters, steel rims, a vinyl saddle, and gumwall tires vs. the better skinwall tires on the SGp.
It also came with steel chainrings, and earlier models had steel cottered cranks too. They also were a lot heavier.
Back in the day we sold 20 GP's to every one SGP, and probably 100 of either of those to every SC. rarely did we sell anything further up the lineup, I think I bought one of only two Professionals they ever had on the floor there, and the owner kept the other.
Peugeot and several American brands sold far better, mostly because they were so cheap compared to the Raleigh models.

We didn't sell Schwinn but a shop nearby did. They sold a ton of Letour models, but the Traveler was likely their number one. For me, the Letour, like many Japanese bikes had a long top tube and reach for some reason, I never felt comfortable on them like I did on the euro built bikes. I rode a Peugeot U08 for years and loved it once i tossed the Simplex stuff, but once I bought the first Raleigh, i was done with the Peugeot bikes. I did own a few Schwinns, and even had a Traveler set up as a commuter bike in the 90's for a bit but it was never anything more than a cheap bike to me.
I think my Traveler was a 79 model. I kept it till the frame cracked, the right chainstay cracked where the kickstand plate was attached to it. I brazed it back on and replaced it with Nishiki International which i also still own but don't ride much anymore.

Comparison wise, I'd put the Super Letour as a direct competitor to the Super Grand Prix, the Nishiki international, or maybe a Motobecane Grand Touring, or a Panasonic DX2000, a Miyata 600, or a Trek 410/412 of that time.

As a bike enthusiast I've never looked at the Letour models as anything special, they were good bikes but nothing that really got my attention. The Raleigh and Motobecane bikes of that era just seemed to be a better thought out bike overall. They fit better, were generally a bit lighter, and they weren't from Japan. A year or two later that all changed and everything was from Asia on the road bike rack.

If it were me, and someone offered me $300 for a Letour with no wheels, it would be gone. If I didn't need another bike, I'd likely take the cash and not the trade but the SGP could be a nice bike.
If your partial to 27", then you won't like the SGP, as it really doesn't have room for 27" tires if you chose to swap out wheels later on.

Off the top of my head, the only Schwinn import that I really wouldn't mind having would be the Voyager, which was a couple clicks above the SL 12.2 in the model line up.
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Old 04-22-21, 12:57 PM
  #18  
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Yeah your right, the Raleigh SGP would have to be cheap to sell here too, same as a Supercourse. In the Midwest a mint chrome SL 12.2 would easily sell in the 300 dollar range, maybe cause more Schwinn fans in this area.
Sorry but I’ve got a 78 Supercourse that I built up from an nos frame, it’s nothing special, and was rather dismayed by the quality, especially after I stripped the shoddy paint. Brits weren’t exactly know for their quality in the late 70s.
I was assuming the POs was a Panasonic frame, not familiar with the Giant ones, I’ve ridden both the Supercourse and SL 12.2, I’ll take the Schwinn/Panasonic. Parking the 2 side by side, the Raleigh just looks dumpy, while the Schwinn looks stunning in chrome, something you’ll never see again. Of course beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and to each their own.
Catalog scans of the 78 SGP and SL 12.2 below, which is the original comparison, also 78 last year for the 12.2. Don’t really see your point, but I guess I prefer double butted chrome moly, to hi tensile steel.
The PO should just take the cash, as he is more worried about the money anyway, as I posted earlier, fair offer.
Tim


78 Schwinn SL 12.2

78 Raleigh SGP

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Old 04-22-21, 11:07 PM
  #19  
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I've owned both myself, I still have my original SGP and a used SC, Both are excellent bikes, I've owned others before and after but none come close to the fit of feel of the Raleigh bikes.
I've had two Letours, neither was anything special, neither of mine were chrome, one black, on red, plus one Voyager. the Voyager was the by far the better of the three bikes.
I pretty much see the Letour and all the variants as dressed up entry level bikes. The design of the Raleigh bikes seems to trickle down from the top with the lesser models riding and feeling very much like the higher end models. That's not the case with the Schwinn Letour, the 12.2 was pretty much as good as it got, and they carried over no design features or dna from the Paramount models. They were bikes built to a price point for Schwinn, not as a ground up model.
The Letour wasn't a bad bike but most of us just saw it as another Japanese clone. Around that same time there were Panasonics, Shogun, Lotus, Miyata, Nishiki, and a slew of others that all seemed to be copies of one another. If you stripped off the paint and decals on a Letour, you likely couldn't identify it from any of the other mid level Japanese bikes of that time.
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Old 04-23-21, 08:50 AM
  #20  
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I agree that the Schwinn Super LeTour 12.2 was as good as it got in 78. Third from the top of the Schwinn lineup, Paramount, Volare, Super LeTour 12.2. Supercourse was third from the top of Raleighs lineup in 78, Professioal, Competition, Supercourse.
The OPs original post concerned the Super Le Tour 12.2, not a LeTour, LeTour ll, or LeTour lll, the latter three which I could easily disregard as previous posters already have. I get how people prefer one brand over another, guess I’m more biased towards Schwinn then Raleigh. I have totally rebuilt a 78 12.2 bare frame up for my brother, and own a 78 Supercourse that I built up from a nos replacement frame. I’ve put quite a few miles on both, and am still trying to trade bikes with my brother, he’s ridden my Supercourse and wants nothing to do with it. Guess I’ll have to find my own. Should have asked OP what frame size he had.
So I will now post catalog scans of the 78 12.2 and Supercouse, and wonder why, if the soul of a bike is the frame, realizing bikes really have neither actual souls or DNA, one would chose, discounting bias, one over the other. Really we are talking double butted chrome moly triangle, vs one with straight tube 531. I will also post a pic of my 78 Supercourse, if someone has a large frame chrome 12.2 in equal condition, I’d really be interested in a trade.
Tim


78 Schwinn Super Le Tour 12.2

78 Raleigh Supercourse

My 78 Supercourse

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Old 04-24-21, 04:45 AM
  #21  
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The Schwinn is a 25" frame.

Does it seem odd that both the SGP and SC Raleigh weigh the same? If the SGP is supposed to be gas pipe, and the SC is part 531, plus better components, yet they both are listed at 26lbs in a 21" frame? The SGP he has is using alloy chain rings, and
The Schwinn is also listed at 26.5lbs.

The frame, complete with forks, saddle, bars, brakes, cables, chain, etc. in 25" weighs in at 26.17 lbs minus its wheels, tires, freewheel, skewers, etc.
The frame only of the Schwinn weighs more than the Raleigh SGP minus its derailleurs, bar tape, and shifters.
The chrome is in good shape on the Schwinn but the decals are coming off. The chrome isn't very well polished or shiny in the corners and down low, like they chromed over rough metal.
The finish on the Raleigh is like glass everywhere. I don't really care about either bike, I don't need either one but had figured since I had the Schwinn, I'd find it a set of wheels to fit if I found some for cheap. but a whole working bike is better than money out of pocket I suppose.
Fit wise, the 25" frame is a tad big, but 23 is too small for me, and both only came in those two sizes. I can ride either but the larger frame has the better advantage of giving me better leg extension, but I've both sizes. Just in a mock up with two borrowed wheels, the Schwinn feels like a long reach, as if I'm laying on the top tube. The Raleigh is a more natural fit. Both have 110mm reach stems.

I like the Schwinn for the all chrome frame, and 27" wheels, for which I've got tires for.
I like the Raleigh for the fact its complete and that its super clean, and i think it 'feels' better when I sit on it reach wise.
I'm not a fan of 700c wheels but its got new looking tires on it.

I think I'm just going to make the trade and let the cards fall where they may, chances are I'll just put it aside as a spare bike anyhow.
My Peugeot U08 is my go to bike when i want a road bike, complete with its serrated chrome rims, Normandy hubs, Mafac brakes, and Ideal saddle.
If I make the trade, I guess the U08 gains a spare set of tires.
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Old 04-24-21, 11:40 AM
  #22  
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Yup, the 25” bike will weigh more. The SL 12.2 frame I rebuilt for my brother, two years ago was perfect, decals and all, sounds like yours isn’t. Take the 300 hundred and run, more then fair offer. I’ll keep looking for a 25” one, in better condition.
The paint on my Supercourse is like glass too, only because I had it redone. The original paint and decals, on a never used frame, were absolute crap!
Posting pics of at least one of the bikes in question, would have helped this thread immensely, then again your a senior member, so you know that.
Best wishes!
Tim

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Old 04-25-21, 05:23 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by tkamd73 View Post
Yup, the 25Ē bike will weigh more. The SL 12.2 frame I rebuilt for my brother, two years ago was perfect, decals and all, sounds like yours isnít. Take the 300 hundred and run, more then fair offer. Iíll keep looking for a 25Ē one, in better condition.
The paint on my Supercourse is like glass too, only because I had it redone. The original paint and decals, on a never used frame, were absolute crap!
Posting pics of at least one of the bikes in question, would have helped this thread immensely, then again your a senior member, so you know that.
Best wishes!
Tim
Yes, but my point is that the Schwinn 25" chromoly frame alone weighs so much more than the Raleigh gas pipe bike complete.

I made the swap for the SGP, I kept the derailleurs, shifters, and cables for the Raleigh. He intends to put the Schwinn back to 100% stock with all original parts and hang it up in his garage with the other 50 or so bikes he's got. He just don't do Raleigh. so he had no interest in it.
The Raleigh is all original down to the tires, which look good for being 43 years old. There's not so much as a scratch on the bike. A quick check on the scale, along with the derailleurs in a bag, I get 26.7 lbs for the SGP in a 25.5" frame on the same scale I weighed the Schwinn on. All it needs is my time to put the derailleurs on it. It already has the Suntour bar end shifters on it, so i now have a spare set.

What i still can't figure out is if the SGP is a gas pipe frame, then why does it weigh the same as an equal size Super Course which has better components, and three 531 tubes?
The SC has LF hubs, came factory with a Cyclone RD, and no safety levers, the SGP has HF hubs, Hi Ten tubes, a VXGT RD, and safety brake levers. It should be heavier, at least by a little bit but the catalog says both weigh the same. Both came stock with the same tires, rims, forks, headset, and BB. The SGP also lists having Steel chainrings where as the SC came with alloy. Both have similar if not identical geometry as well.

If I compare this '78 SGP to my buddies '77 SC they look almost identical. The only difference is how ornate the lugs are on the SGP, or how plain they are on the SC.
I'll get some pics of the SGP later on, once I get the wheels back on it and inside. Its still in the back of my car. I didn't feel like dealing with the rain last night.
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Old 04-25-21, 07:03 AM
  #24  
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I find that really hard to believe, but I will reserve judgement until I take my park scale to my Supercourse and my brothers SL12.2, both large frames.
I guess the serial # will tell, but I wonder if you really have a SL 12.2 frame, or another chrome frame with the wrong stickers. On my brothers bike, the chrome plating is perfect everywhere, and the decals are under the clear coat.
Then again, just weighed my Supercourse, 25lbs 9oz, lighter then I thought, I’ll get over to my brothers this week.
Tim

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Old 04-25-21, 10:24 AM
  #25  
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The Schwinn had four numbers on the headbadge, 1399, and it had 9E00122 under the crank across the bottom. It was chrome with red outline decals.
There was a Made in Japan decal on the seat post and a Schwinn xtra lite decal right above.
A few things that got me about that bike was that it still used the smaller 7/8" stem diameter, like a Varsity, the S stem was necked down where it went into the steer tube. It makes the stem useless on most other bikes. The headset was also sort of cheap, it more resembled the headset on a Huffy than an older Schwinn. A big chunky top nut with a rough knurled cone nut below it. It did not have the typical smooth chrome headset like you would find on a Varsity. It stood out so much to me that I even went online to see if they were all like that and they indeed were made that way.

Here's a quick pic of the SGP, the wheels that came with it are still in the truck, these wheels are off my buddy's SC. (He swapped out his wheels day one, these are never used 1977 SC wheels and tires). I have the new old stock calipers, cables, levers, crankset, bb, and freewheel for it in the truck, he was setting it up with all Shimano 600 which he'll now use on the Schwinn. There's a handful of doubles too, a couple extra Cyclone derailleurs, both long and short cage, several freewheels, besides the original, and a new pair of Michelin tires as well as the original Raleigh scripted skinwalls that are on the large flange hub wheelset that belongs on this. If I found another frameset, I've probably got enough parts to build a second SGP or SC.

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