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Badly weathered 85 Waterford Paramount

Old 08-28-21, 04:06 PM
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Badly weathered 85 Waterford Paramount

Hi folks,

Got a bit of a quandary here.

First, some history. Since early 2017 Iíve been volunteering at our local bike co-op refurbishing bikes for resale or the Earn-a- Bike program. For the past year & a half, Iíve been working at home. Most of the bikes are delivered and I tend to focus on old road bike since most of the others staffers prefer newer stuff. Plus, vintage road bike move slowly and their main revenue stream comes from MTBs, Hybrids & Crusiers.

This weekís delivery was a badly weathered and well worn 1985 Waterford Schwinn Paramount, serial #; 610 D WH 85058. The gear train components and brakes are 7400 Dura Ace 7 speed SIS.

Hereís the problem(s): There is considerable surface rust on the top tube especially around the brake housing guides. Rear derailleur is scuffed, but front is OK. Both have a bit of rust on the hardware. The DT shifters work, but the chrome on the mounting collars is bubbling. Adjusters on both brake calipers are broken. Aero brake levers are scuffed and have the wrong hoods. Wheels have mismatched rims laced Suntour GPX hubs. Rear is free wheel. DS crank looks like it was hit with a hammer or banged against another bike while on a carrier. Also, dust caps are missing.

My concern is how to proceed with this. Most bikes we get in this condition are stripped for usable parts and the frames sent to the metal recyclers. However, they are rarely of this level. Is there any value to the frame of components? I guess I could give the frame an oxalic acid soak to determine how bad the rust is, but really donít want to put a lot of effort into something that doesnít give us any return.

In the past when Iíve encountered similar situations with lower lever bikes, the co-op manager has suggested that I try to find a ďworthwhileĒ use for the frame before scraping it. Would a BF member be interested in a frame like this and be willing to pay for shipping & packing (and maybe a small donation to the co-op;-))? I have done this in the past for mid level Raleigh & Peugeot frames, but they were in slightly better condition.

Need more info, questions answered or additional pix, email me: vancy@att.net Any feedback and suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks & regards,






Van
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Old 08-28-21, 04:41 PM
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Strip the parts and offer the frame to a BF member for shipping+donation. You may get local interest as well. Good luck - frame shouldn't be scapped just yet...
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Old 08-28-21, 07:08 PM
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Unimaginable horrors lie under those bubbles on the top tube. Strip the parts and offer them for sale as a group or use them to add charm to an otherwise lesser frame. Road salt and weather have taken their toll. Give the frame a proper burial in the coop's dumpster and move on to other jobs.
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Old 08-28-21, 07:34 PM
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Snakes On A Plane

Originally Posted by thinktubes View Post
Strip the parts and offer the frame to a BF member for shipping+donation. You may get local interest as well. Good luck - frame shouldn't be scrapped just yet...
+1

Originally Posted by CroMo Mike View Post
Unimaginable horrors lie under those bubbles on the top tube. Strip the parts and offer them for sale as a group or use them to add charm to an otherwise lesser frame. Road salt and weather have taken their toll. Give the frame a proper burial in the coop's dumpster and move on to other jobs.
Difficult to discern from the photos, but it may be merely, mostly, Filiform Corrosion.

I wouldn't write that frame off yet.

(I've rehabilitated and ridden worse, at least from what I can see in the pictures posted. Living and riding by the Ocean, I know most of my riders have a challenged lifespan anyway, regardless of my efforts to combat corrosion.)

Is there a Serial Number? Any remnants of a Tubing Sticker? And what does it measure? Maybe 62cm?

Last edited by machinist42; 08-28-21 at 07:52 PM. Reason: Afterthoughts.
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Old 08-28-21, 07:35 PM
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No bikes or bike parts in the landfill,😮

Originally Posted by CroMo Mike View Post
Unimaginable horrors lie under those bubbles on the top tube. Strip the parts and offer them for sale as a group or use them to add charm to an otherwise lesser frame. Road salt and weather have taken their toll. Give the frame a proper burial in the coop's dumpster and move on to other jobs.
Hi Mike,
Sorry, canít go in the dumpster. We try to recycle as much as possible. Aluminum recycling is a nice income for us, steel not so much.
Cheers,
Van
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Old 08-28-21, 08:59 PM
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Is there a Serial Number? Any remnants of a Tubing Sticker? And what does it measure? Maybe 62cm?
Serial number: 610 D WH 85058. The 610 refers to a 61cm CTT Seat post measurement. Actual CTC measurements are 59.5 for the SP & 57cm for the TT. These were built with Columbus tubing, either SL or SLX. There are remnants of a Columbus sticker on the ST.
Cheers,
Van
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Old 08-29-21, 06:35 AM
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I think the bubbling rust is surface.

I bought a Basso Loto with a few areas of surface, bubbling rust.
I filed and sanded in such places.

Painted the areas with Black Rustoleum, and it is SOLID !!!

It was not as bad as what you have pictured..........but I would not scrap the frame until I did what I did with my Basso.

I took a long round file and worked slowly and got down to the bare metal . I was lucky that the areas that were bubbling, are Black in color !!!!

Good Luck and just be patient !
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Old 08-29-21, 09:34 AM
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As a fullbike as-is in that condition from a coop type place I would expect see a price of ~$60.

As a frame alone $10-20 for an industrious sort that likes to pick up a project for painting.
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Old 08-29-21, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. 66 View Post
As a fullbike as-is in that condition from a coop type place I would expect see a price of ~$60.

As a frame alone $10-20 for an industrious sort that likes to pick up a project for painting.
Our co-op doesnít sell as-is bikes to the general public. Thatís why Iím looking for input from BF members. Maybe one of them can make use of it. Way too big for me. ☹️
Cheers,
Van
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Old 08-31-21, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Senior Ryder 00 View Post
Our co-op doesnít sell as-is bikes to the general public. Thatís why Iím looking for input from BF members. Maybe one of them can make use of it. Way too big for me. ☹️
Cheers,
Van
I had a rustbucket Eisentraut bead blasted here in Oakland for about $40 at Myers Sandblasting. In my view, it was well worth it to save myself the mess and bother of stripping the paint and rust. I documented the results in my build thread. If anyone is local and wants this frame, I recommend that route.
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Old 08-31-21, 07:59 PM
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Originally Posted by noobinsf View Post
I had a rustbucket Eisentraut bead blasted here in Oakland for about $40 at Myers Sandblasting. In my view, it was well worth it to save myself the mess and bother of stripping the paint and rust. I documented the results in my build thread. If anyone is local and wants this frame, I recommend that route.
Hi,
That would have been my approach if it was my size. We have a guy locally that does bead blast & great quality powder coat for a reasonable price. Iím going to treat the TT with oxalic acid to see how bad the damage is & if itís not catastrophic, will offer it to a forum member for shipping and a small donation to the co-op.
Thanks for your input.
Cheers,
Van
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Old 09-01-21, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Senior Ryder 00 View Post
Hi,
That would have been my approach if it was my size. We have a guy locally that does bead blast & great quality powder coat for a reasonable price. Iím going to treat the TT with oxalic acid to see how bad the damage is & if itís not catastrophic, will offer it to a forum member for shipping and a small donation to the co-op.
Thanks for your input.
Cheers,
Van
What's the frame size? I sometimes rehab bikes like this and might be interested.
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Old 09-01-21, 06:15 PM
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Interested Enough to Read Through The Thread?

Originally Posted by tendency View Post
What's the frame size? I sometimes rehab bikes like this and might be interested.
The first three digits of the Serial Number give the seat tube CTT measurement in millimeters.
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Old 09-01-21, 07:55 PM
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Originally Posted by tendency View Post
What's the frame size? I sometimes rehab bikes like this and might be interested.
The seat tube is 61cm CTT/59.5cm CTC. Top tube is 57cm CTC. Iím planning to do an oxalic acid soak soon.
Cheers,
Van
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Old 09-01-21, 07:59 PM
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The steel under that paint will have significant spider web rust. Way too much trouble to sand paper & refinish by hand. Strip it down to a bare frame. Get the headset races & bearings off. Take it to a good powdercoating company. Let them sand blast the frame + fork & chemically treat the steel. Get a good thick one coat powder coat primary color applied. White, yellow or, red. Treat the inside of frame with a spray applied grease like LPS or Framesaver. Put it all back together. Ride it for another 20 years. Be good. Have fun.
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Old 09-02-21, 06:22 AM
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Example
This bike was rarely used but kept at a beach house.
I don't have pics of the same places but you might get an idea of the condition.
P1010035 on Flickr

Striped
P1010140 on Flickr

Sanded
P1010141 on Flickr

Worst condition
P1010167 on Flickr

Coat with rust conversion product. It will turn black.
P1050275 on Flickr Prime and paint.
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Old 09-02-21, 06:27 AM
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My .02 cents, similar to others: sandblast, oaxlic acid soak, then use a good filler primer as there almost assuredly will be pitting on the steel which you'll see through the paint if it's not filled.

I'm not a fan of how powdercoat finishes look so personally I'd paint it myself. Not hard to do with very good results with a little practice. Just depends how much you want to take on.
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Old 09-06-21, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by SJX426 View Post
Example
This bike was rarely used but kept at a beach house.
I don't have pics of the same places but you might get an idea of the condition.
P1010035 on Flickr

Striped
P1010140 on Flickr

Sanded
P1010141 on Flickr

Worst condition
P1010167 on Flickr

Coat with rust conversion product. It will turn black.
P1050275 on Flickr Prime and paint.
Originally Posted by tendency View Post
My .02 cents, similar to others: sandblast, oaxlic acid soak, then use a good filler primer as there almost assuredly will be pitting on the steel which you'll see through the paint if it's not filled.

I'm not a fan of how powdercoat finishes look so personally I'd paint it myself. Not hard to do with very good results with a little practice. Just depends how much you want to take on.
Great input guys,
Since all of my bikes are regular riders & Iím getting a bit lazy in my old age, I tend to do more PCing.
Cheers,
Van
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Old 09-06-21, 07:45 PM
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I might be interested in just the frame for a re-coat. If you want to talk about it gimme a call Smiles, MH 812-336-3283
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Old 09-15-21, 01:55 PM
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Saved from the Land Fill!

Mad Honk & I have come up with a program to salvage this great frameset.
Thanks for all of the info.
Cheers,
Van
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Old 09-15-21, 07:08 PM
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I see you are making strides to keep the "War Horse" pleased.....keep an eye out for the rolling pin if you are still sleeping in the house.
Best, Ben
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Old 09-16-21, 04:04 PM
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Ben,
The powder blue one turned out ok so this one will get the Pro Kote Indy treatment as well. I had a second set of decals from Velo Cals so it will get the correct badging and maybe a build with some Campy. The question is: What color? I'm up for suggestions so lemme know. Now about the War Department; I will travel with her this weekend to Clifty Falls state park in Madison, IN cause she likes hiking so some outdoor activity is in MH's future. The trick now is how to get this one under the radar when it gets here. Painting it bright red will likely be a giant flag that it is a new one in the stable. I am sending a few things out to keep the herd thinned down to a manage-able confusion. The pics after some oxalic acid show some pitting around the cable guides but I am thinking the media blasting will clean that up. Send in the color selections, I think it will be in the Prisimatc color chart as they are a metal flake color that should make the frame pop. I'll send bottle cages with the frame so the parts will be all matchy-match. Smiles, MH
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Old 10-04-21, 06:30 PM
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Well Ben,
The frame has made it's way into the shop. There is some damage to the chrome on the chain stay, so it may have to have the the chrome covered to protect the frame underneath. I am not sure about the color that it will become. I am not ready to coat it in black again, but that color is not out of the question. My leanings are more toward a midnight blue which would be a nice change from the solid whites reds and black that were offered from the Waterford site. Lemme know what the thoughts here are. Since it is way larger at 61cm than I can ride, it will likely be up for a move to a new owner that will ride a 61cm comfortably. Smiles, MH
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Old 10-27-21, 02:31 PM
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Well Folks,
The frame is back from the beauty shop, and I think it turned out OK. Here are the initial pics upon return to Bloomington.

The folks at PKI do this for me to allow for serial number identification. It came out pretty clear in this shot.

The frame got a white coating that covered most of the damage from rust. When I picked it up there were two very minor dents to the top tube but not enough to see without looking for them.

This is the side that had the dents but mostly unable to detect. The PC covered pretty well and left the detail.

Matching fork that came out nice.

Rear triangle with a little sister in the background. The chrome stay on the drive side got covered due to pitting in the chrome.

Front view of the detail of the fork and headtube.
A few shadows from the late afternoon sun but overall I think the work turned out nicely. Smiles, MH
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Old 10-27-21, 03:15 PM
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They did a really nice job on that one's lug cut outs. Did it get a clear over the PC?
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