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F. Moser funny bike

Old 11-15-21, 07:21 AM
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F. Moser funny bike

Iíve always referred to this style frame as a funny bike.

I received this in a trade, seller/trader said he figures it sizes like a 56-58cm frame size, and he believed it originally had a 24Ē front wheel. The fork is not original, fits a 700c wheel, he said there is a correct looking fork on ebay currently.

Not sure if I want to try and build this one up or pass it on.

It also has a racerís name hand written near the front, but no documentation to validate that. The racerís name is Gaggioli.







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Old 11-15-21, 10:16 AM
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That would be a keeper for me. If not historically the first of the lo-pro/funny bikes, Moser certainly popularized them after his 1984 Hour Record. These Moser frames are easily the most distinctive style of the mid to late 1980s TT bicycles. Between the uniqueness and historical signifigance this would arguably be one the most desirable frame in this discipline.

My recollection is that the early versions of these frames were made from Columbus tubing. Oria came later. I don't recall seeing GM 0.0 until circa 1987-1988. Regarding the wheel size, I know that the original models used 650C front wheels. 24" could be correct for later models but I'm not sure. It should be easy enough to verify from the brake radius (i.e distance from dropout centre to brake pad). 650C would be ~ 286mm, while 24" should be ~ 260mm.

Regarding the Gaggioli name, there was a Robert Gaggioli who rode for Lon Pettyjohn's Coors Light team in the early 1990s, along with several former 7-Eleven and Motorola riders. He had been active in Europe for a handful of years prior to coming the USA but I'm not aware of any of his teams being sponsored by Moser. I know that during his Coors Light years, they rode primarily Serotta, as they (Serotta) tried to recruit me as a dealer.
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Old 11-15-21, 02:09 PM
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Thank you, nice to have the history.
The fork is not original, but I did find a side view photo of a green version of what looks like the same bike, so I’m going to do some carefull eyeball estimates to see if I can visually align this frame and then estimate where the headtube would be and line up where the front wheel should be and see how close I can get to matching the photo.

If I do keep this as a wall hanger then it will be a mishmash of parts while I keep a casual eye open for proper parts.
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Old 11-15-21, 09:30 PM
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Just playing around with visualizing what different wheel sizes might look like just for grins.
700c on back with 20Ē on front,
then 700c front and rear,
both options look scary.

And apart from what the guy told me, I have no idea of a fair value on this as it sits. I might have to take it down to Bens and see what forks they have laying around until I find something that looks correct.




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Old 11-15-21, 10:18 PM
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Without a correct fork, that's a project for sure. Cool if you're willing to take it on.
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Old 11-16-21, 12:28 PM
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Old 11-16-21, 01:13 PM
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Oh crap, I really wish you hadnít posted that (saying this while I capture the image and print it out ).

For some strange reason the Disney comic just gives me a nudge to build this up. Time will tell what I do.
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Old 11-16-21, 03:02 PM
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Hmmm... WICKED curves on that bike!!!

It looks like Moser had some of the most unique seat tube angles. Most funny bike frames I've seen have a more or less normal angle on the seat post.

That fork is going to be the Achilles heal of the build.

Ask the seller if he can track down the original fork (or his source for the frame). Even if it is bent, it would be a good starting place.

Part of your answer will be the head tube angle. That 20" wheel (on a 700c fork) looks like about the right angle. That likely indicates that a 24" fork is right. Although, I'm seeing a few F.Mosers with 650c forks in photos.

I've got both 24" and 650c frames around here, and could take some measurements (crown to floor), if you wish.

There is this fork on E-Bay:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/133886327863
I think the dropout is imprinted Moser, so it is likely genuine. HOWEVER, that fork has a lot of rake to it. So, it looks to me more like a kid's bike fork than a racing bike fork. The steer tube may also be too long. And I don't like the crown lug.

This fork would be exquisite.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/284511154674
I wonder if it would be possible to cut 4" to 6" off of the legs, and reattach the dropouts.

This crown may well be the right crown. All you'd have to do is find the rest of the parts and assemble.
https://www.ebay.com/itm/133853427585


Does your bike have a bottom bracket cutout?
The road bike 51.151 cutouts look like this (at least on some models)
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Old 11-16-21, 10:27 PM
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Yep, that is what is on the bottom bracket.

Seller had no leads to the original fork, I suspect one of the ones you linked are the same one he said he had bookmarked on ebay. I will check them out.
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Old 11-17-21, 03:43 AM
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I think this was 1984 Moser's hour record bike (with the record of 51.151km which he used in his bike models).


https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/p...rd-bike-287395

It appears to have had 700c/650c wheels.

I'm seeing photos of at last 2 different styles of large wheel bikes he used later.




Notice different seat tubes.

I'd carefully consider 650c wheels on your bike.

Talk to a local framebuilder about either making a new fork from scratch (with the fork crown above), or modifying the 700c fork for 650c, or 24" wheels.

Last edited by CliffordK; 11-17-21 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 11-17-21, 08:11 AM
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All of my funny bikes have had 24" front wheels -- that said, i ride 53c and the largest i am comfortable on is a 54 ----- I was told that while there are no hard and fast rules , anything under a 55 or so has 24" wheels and bigger bikes have 650c
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Old 11-17-21, 08:45 AM
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The functional top tube length from center of head tube to the seat tube opening is about 59cm.
I somehow missed measuring the functional/traditional seat tube length, but from center of cranks to opening in the seat tube is probably 60-64cm. With nothing really sticking out is seems like the bike would fit about like a 58cm bike (more or less).

I’ve had some inquiry about the bike, but I’m still deciding if I want to tackle the project or not. If I keep it I’m inclined to leave the paint as-is, clean and treat the surface rust areas, frame-saver the insides of the tubing, and go from there.

Off to refresh my ebay log-in “just in case”.
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Old 11-17-21, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
...I'd carefully consider 650c wheels on your bike....
It's apparent from the mock-up and brake reach that the correct rear wheel is 700C. 650C wouldn't work unless you put BMX/ATB calipers on the rear.

Last edited by T-Mar; 11-17-21 at 09:04 AM.
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Old 11-17-21, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by DMC707 View Post
All of my funny bikes have had 24" front wheels -- that said, i ride 53c and the largest i am comfortable on is a 54 ----- I was told that while there are no hard and fast rules , anything under a 55 or so has 24" wheels and bigger bikes have 650c
The prime purpose of the smaller front wheel was to allow the top of the head tube to be lowered enough to use bull horn handlebars. For an average height cyclist, this can accomplished using a 650C front wheel. For shorter riders, a 24" front wheel and fork is required.

The only place where 24" wheels were routinely used was for the Team Pursuit and 100K Team Time Trial events. In these cases, the 24" wheels had the aerodynamic advatange of allowing the drafting rider to be closer to the lead rider than with larger wheels

For the TTT events in Grand Tours, the riders typically used their standard TT bicycle, which for most riders, used a 650C front wheel and 700C rear wheel. I guess it was just too expensive to develop another set of custom bicycles that would be used once or twice a year.

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Old 11-17-21, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I think this was 1984 Moser's hour record bike (with the record of 51.151km which he used in his bike models).


https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/p...rd-bike-287395

It appears to have had 700c/650c wheels.

I'm seeing photos of at last 2 different styles of large wheel bikes he used later.




Notice different seat tubes.

I'd carefully consider 650c wheels on your bike.

Talk to a local framebuilder about either making a new fork from scratch (with the fork crown above), or modifying the 700c fork for 650c, or 24" wheels.
Can someone shed light on the gargantuan rear wheel? BTW, my neck hurts just looking at that set-up.
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Old 11-17-21, 09:46 AM
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You can't mock-up the bicycle for a 24" wheel by using a 700C fork. After all, it's intended to have a front brake. A 24" fork with the 24" wheel would lower the head tube about an additional 2" over the mock-up that uses the 24" wheel and 700C fork.

However, that mock-up with the 700C fork and 24" wheel actually replicates the head height and geometry of a 650C fork with 650C front wheel. The brake radius for a 700C fork (311mm) plus the brake radius for a 24" wheel (260mm) is exactly the same as the bead seat diameter for 650C (571mm). It looks correct to me, as the seat tube appears to be just slightly foward of vertical, as it is on the pictures of Moser's actual bicycles.

Here's a picture of Moser on one of the road frames, as opposed the track frame photos previously submitted. It looks like a 700C/650C combination. Moser was 5"10", so this was probably the combination used on most of these frames.
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Old 11-17-21, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by TugaDude View Post
Can someone shed light on the gargantuan rear wheel? BTW, my neck hurts just looking at that set-up.
That's Moser's 1988 Hour Record bicycle. In 1986, Viatcheslav Ekimov had broke Moser's previous Hour Record for indoors, at sea level. In 1987, Moser twice failed to recapture that record. As a result, a new bicycle, with 1.03m diameter rear wheel and split seat tube(s) was developed. The new design was reportedly more areodynamic and allowed Moser to best Ekimov's record by a whopping 972m. His previous attempt had failed by 232m. Over the course of 8 months, aided by the new bicycle, Moser covered an additonal 1,204m!

Last edited by T-Mar; 11-17-21 at 10:19 AM.
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Old 11-17-21, 02:12 PM
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Originally Posted by T-Mar View Post
That's Moser's 1988 Hour Record bicycle. In 1986, Viatcheslav Ekimov had broke Moser's previous Hour Record for indoors, at sea level. In 1987, Moser twice failed to recapture that record. As a result, a new bicycle, with 1.03m diameter rear wheel and split seat tube(s) was developed. The new design was reportedly more areodynamic and allowed Moser to best Ekimov's record by a whopping 972m. His previous attempt had failed by 232m. Over the course of 8 months, aided by the new bicycle, Moser covered an additonal 1,204m!
Fascinating, thanks for that. There's a lot of very cool history in the world of bikes and we're lucky to have people like yourself here to share what they know.
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Old 11-18-21, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by TugaDude View Post
Can someone shed light on the gargantuan rear wheel? BTW, my neck hurts just looking at that set-up.
Here you go...post 14
Any videos on the web detailing how older disc wheel were manufacture?
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Old 11-19-21, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by xiaoman1 View Post
Thanks for that! Very cool indeed.
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Old 11-19-21, 11:48 AM
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Many of the early discs were discs over spoked wheels. My guess is at least the discs used in 1984 were discs over spoke wheels. It is possible that changed by 87 and 88 with the big wheel bike.
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Old 11-19-21, 11:54 AM
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Not sure if I missed it above but the fork looks like it came off a Lemond Maillot Jaune Aero-Aluminum framed bike.
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Old 11-19-21, 01:06 PM
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I can't help with value on this although I personally think it's really cool. I can offer my experience with a funny bike , albeit a tamer one than yours. I have one of the Schwinn Prologue TT funny bikes. Factory specs say it's a 58 CM frame. I've never been able to get comfortable on anything larger than 56 cm with a road bike. Wasn't the issue with the Prologue. I got mine as a frameset with mismatched wheels. I sourced a new rear wheels and then browsed the various recumbent forums for a different 24" for the front. 24" wheels aren't they common and tires choices are very limited now. A few clincher options and last time I checked Yellow Jersey had some tubulars in that size.

I built mine up with pretty much all new Shimano 10 speed parts. The rear wheel was a brand new Campagnolo Scirocco that I delabeled. Front is a Velocity rim but I don't remember what hub, it was used but in great shape. I was still sorting the cockpit fit on mine out when dog wrecked me on another bike causing a bad separation of my AC joint. That ended my days of actually riding this bike. Shoulder still pops when I try to go aero on this.

Anyway. my point on value is that it's pretty tough. Most people look at these and go "ouch". Mine is not as aggressive as yours and certainly not uncomfortable. Front is a little twitchy and quick handling but you get used to it fast. Anyway point is it will take a special buyer as is and even built up. I won't sell online and mine has been listed locally for over two years now. The price is well under just the value of the parts and still no takers. So if you put money in it, make sure it's for your love. Or if you're good with selling online you may be fine.

​​


Much tamer than your, oh so cool, bike.
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Old 11-19-21, 01:49 PM
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I agree that an actual value is tough.

The Moser above is a little battered, but is also extremely unique. Finding a good match for a fork will be a pain, and potentially expensive. Would one paint the bike? Paint the fork? Unless it is a perfect fork, it could still detract from the value of the bike.

Here's my bike (700c rear, 650c front).




I did ride it in the configuration in the first photo for two century-plus rides. However, like @jamesdak, I never got comfortable stretched out in the full aero position. But, perhaps practice is needed.

Dual discs don't work well in the wind.

A couple of configuration issues:

  1. The vertical seat tube between the bottom bracket and the top of the chainring tends to kick the tail of the derailleur too high, and I was never able to get a configuration that allowed me to hit all sprockets on the rear without rubbing (or perhaps I wasn't able to even use the smaller sprocket up front).
    .
  2. I'm not super thin, and seat needs to be set fairly far forward to keep the thighs from hitting the stomach.
    It wasn't a big deal for my config, but I fear that the Moser might be designed with the seat further back which would become problematic.
    One can, of course, also adjust the effective seat hight with crank length. So, longer cranks drop the seat and raise the knees. Shorter cranks raise the seat and drop the knees.

I suppose one question is how much adjustment one needs of the seatpost on the Moser. If the seatpost is kept short, then the seat positioning may not be bad. If the post is made to be long, it will throw everything out of kilter.

Anyway, one would expect the bike to fall into a hobby curiosity, or wall hanger category.
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Old 11-19-21, 02:38 PM
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I should better state my view of these bikes I guess. My comfort issue was just related to limitations of the old bars you see on it. I have a modern profile design bar setup that was going on mine before that dog wrecked me on the Kona. I needed a tad more raised support for my elbows while on the aero bars. That said I'm an old qeezer with 5 blown discs in my lower back. I just can't go too deep on my bars no matter what bike I'm on. Other than that it was always the first minute or two of getting used to the front end on this after all the other rides on regular road bikes. My fastest average pace ever was on this bike and the difference was guite a bit compared to any of my road bikes.

My buddy used this bike for his first ever Tri this summer and finished in the top 3rd of his field. On the bike section he said he was passing people right and left.
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