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The Thrift Store Italian Pt1 Era?

Old 11-24-21, 03:55 PM
  #1  
ejw
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The Thrift Store Italian Pt1 Era?

I’m hoping someone can determine the age/history/value of this Fiorelli Road Bike found in a Thrift Store in Richmond, Virginia. I’m guessing mid 60’s. I paid $125, at the time unsure whether to part it out or restore. It’s virtually certain it had never been modified from new when found in May of 2021, with the possible exception of the tires. The frame serial number is 29696, it has a cast Fiorelli Head Badge, and has the unique Fiorelli round fork crown. The frame has Columbus stampings on the fork and on, at least, the down tube (where it appears to be a Double butted type stamp). I’ve enclosed some details that may not be evident from the picture below. I’ll post additional images on another thread.

-Steel (Magistroni?) Crank stamped “Fiorelli”
-Alloy Magistroni Chainwheels
-Ambrosio alloy “Champion” bars and stem, w/Fiorelli stem bolt.
-Universal Mod. 61 brakes & levers, with replaceable type pads, and age-hardened Universal brake pads.
-Early Campagnolo Record Front Derailleur
-Early Campagnolo Record Rear Derailleur (smooth steel jockey wheels w/ball bearings)
-Regina Gran Sport-Corse Freewheel
-Early Campagnolo High-Flange “No Record”-Record Hubs.
-Campagnolo Straight-Arm Quick Release, with pointed ends.
-Stella Stainless Steel spokes.
-Fiamme Red label tubular rims.
-Lyotard Berthet MB-23 pedals
-“GLR” saddle with a Fiorelli label on the rear.
-Pirelli Yellow label, with a Red “Media” label.
-Other Campagnolo items include; Dropouts, Shifters, Headset, Seat Post, Pump bracket, Cable guides & clamps.

Last edited by ejw; 11-24-21 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 11-24-21, 04:00 PM
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Old 11-24-21, 05:31 PM
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Value depends on many things - make, model, vintage, condition, size, area of location and marketing skills. As it sits, I would not hesitate to pay $500.00 for the bike and, again as it sits, I would not sell it for less than $1000.00. The components alone, sold separately are worth in the neighborhood of $500 to $600 dollars. The frame, cleaned up should go for more than $400.00 and probably closer to $600. Please keep in mind that I am guessing, nothing more. A lot will depend on the seller's marketing skills, patience and, of course, luck.

All that said, if the bike were mine and a good fit, it would not be for sale. It is just too nice an example of a high end sixties Italian road bike. Try taking a bit of crumpled up aluminum foil to the chrome plated areas. A bit of rubbing my work wonders...

Before alloy foil...


After...


Again, I am guessing and, in today's vintage road bicycle market, I am anything but an expert.
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Old 11-24-21, 05:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ejw View Post
I have a later bike, from about 1968. Was about the same condition at that shows. Same weak cage spring, which improved after a mechanism tear down and reassemble. The gearing is steep due to the half step front.
I think it is a great project if it fits you. Too big for me. Stem is pretty long too.
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Old 11-24-21, 05:54 PM
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As for value I would say $ 700-800 as is and $1000-1200 cleaned up rolling with good tires. Great thrift store find I'm with some of the others here if it was mine it would likely be a keeper. Most thrift like this get bastard stripped for a $1000 or so and are sold off ass parts. It is great hope this one is one that stay's all together.

Last edited by zukahn1; 11-24-21 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 11-24-21, 06:43 PM
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It's a pain to strip a bike down for parts when you can sell the entire bike and make a good return on your investment. That's a heck of a find. I have one Italian bike of that era; it's nice riding bike.
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Old 11-24-21, 06:54 PM
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-----

dating is no problem if the rear mech and hubs are taken to be original to the cycle

the Record model rear mech launched in December of 1963

the axle locknuts of the machine's Campag hubs will be marked with a date -



1965 was the final year for Magistroni branded products so the chainset and the rear mech pretty much bracket the cycle to the 1964-1965 time

although it is not unreasonable to think it could be as late as 1966 if the chainset represents a case of using up existing stock

Ambrosio Champion stem & bar products would likely have been discontinued by that date as Tecno Tubo Torino launched ~1964

would expect the axle locknuts to exhibit one of these two years

the Fiorelli tubular crown is of use for era but not for date

its use seemed to go back and forth and it is not a case of necessarily indicating a higher model

there were high models within its tenure which did not receive it

here is an image of the Luxembourg champion Charly Gaul riding for the Fiorelli-Gazzola team in the Giro d'Italia of 1961

note that his machine exhibits the tubular crown -




suspect that the model of the subject cycle is one down from the top

---

cycle a marvelous find to be from this time and so all original with no damage; congratulations!


-----

Last edited by juvela; 11-24-21 at 07:19 PM. Reason: addition
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Old 11-25-21, 10:10 AM
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I don’t know much about bikes from that era but I agree is looks in great shape. We’ve all see ‘80s bikes in a lot worse shape.

If the chrome cleans up that would be a real head turner on Sunday rides. If you’re just looking to make a quick buck dust it off a lot, see if the tires hold air and put on Craigslist and market place for 350 plus shipping and see if you get any bite.

This might not be a grail bike for a lot of people but it might be “my dad had a bike like that and I always wanted one” buyer.

selling the parts off can be a PitA and I think lots of people end up getting stuck with lots of stuff no one want or will to pay the shipping for.
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Old 11-25-21, 10:15 AM
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Restore and keep it, restore and sell.

Unless it is for money recoupment then as several have said above, parting out could be fruitful but who knows how much time it will take. The crank should be worth the price you paid plus another $50 or so.

That thing is beautiful.
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Old 11-25-21, 05:05 PM
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The fact that it looks to have slightly heavier better quality nickel chrome fairly high up on the dropouts if not the whole bike? Rather than thinner alloy chrome also helps confirm lead to dating of mid 60's most makers switched to cheaper chrome circa 1967 and started dropping limiting by the early 70's.l

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Old 11-25-21, 05:58 PM
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-----

forgot i have images of the fork crown emblem on me hd -




---

lug pattern employed appears to be the Agrati "CORSA"

upper head lug is item N. 021.8194

lower head lug is item N. 021.8193

seat lug is item N. 202.8529

-----
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Old 11-25-21, 07:19 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----

forgot i have images of the fork crown emblem on me hd -




---

lug pattern employed appears to be the Agrati "CORSA"

upper head lug is item N. 021.8194

lower head lug is item N. 021.8193

seat lug is item N. 202.8529

-----
nice, thx for all the info. Any chance of full image of that bike?
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Old 11-25-21, 07:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ejw View Post
nice, thx for all the info. Any chance of full image of that bike?

-----

do not recollect image source

only image saved of that machine

would need to peregrinate to find cycle again


-----

Last edited by juvela; 11-26-21 at 08:26 AM. Reason: spellin'
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Old 11-25-21, 10:16 PM
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I'd be tempted to put it up on ebay, in as found condition, for an even $1,000, maybe more. If I attempted to restore that bike, I might lower its value. So I wouldn't. Collectors like original, with all the original patina/scars/scratches.

Now if you want to keep it, I'd just do all the maintenance and consumables, and enjoy it. Certainly if it were my size I'd be keeping it.

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Old 11-26-21, 10:03 AM
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GREAT FIND !!!!

And RARE !!!!!

You must KEEP the bike !!!

Of course if you wanted to sell....there are MANY right here on this forum that would be happy to " take it off your hands"
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Old 11-26-21, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by ejw View Post
nice, thx for all the info. Any chance of full image of that bike?
-----


similar model identified as 1957-58 -

​​​​​​Fiorelli 1957 - BikesRetro

​​​​​​https://www.troppebici.it/fiorelli-corsa-1957/

-----
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Old 11-26-21, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----


similar model identified as 1957-58 -

​​​​​​Fiorelli 1957 - BikesRetro

​​​​​​https://www.troppebici.it/fiorelli-corsa-1957/

-----
thanks, Iím familiar with the BikesRetro one for sale, but had not seen the Italian Site. Was everyone ever made blue 😉
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Old 11-26-21, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ejw View Post
thanks, Iím familiar with the BikesRetro one for sale, but had not seen the Italian Site. Was everyone ever made blue 😉

-----

this shade of blue was the team/house colour for Fiorelli at this era

note the posted image of Charly Gaul riding for the Gazzola-Fiorelli team in nineteen and sixty-one


-----
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Old 11-26-21, 07:21 PM
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Very cool find. That is a time capsule.

I know next to nothing about Fiorelli other than they built frames both under their own name and for others. They built some frames in the 1970s badged as "Fausto Coppi." Sort of like Kessels and others with the "Eddy Merckx" marque (and any number of other famous rides whose names ended up on frames made by someone under contract). Of course, by then, Fausto was not around to open his own frame-building operation the way Eddy ultimately did.
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Old 11-27-21, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by juvela View Post
-----


similar model identified as 1957-58
​​​​​​Fiorelli 1957 - BikesRetro

​​​​​​https://www.troppebici.it/fiorelli-corsa-1957/
-----
The Italian website you supplied, https://www.troppebici.it/fiorelli-corsa-1957/, has pics and info on 3 Fiorelli models. Here’s a, virtually, direct translation of the text into english for each of the three models shown…

-1954 Model

Flagship model of the Novi Ligure house.

The Fiorelli factory was founded in 1932 in via Ugo Foscolo in Novi Ligure, thanks to the brothers Rinaldo, Mario and Lino Fiorelli. He initially only builds racing frames, but soon switches to complete racing and travel bikes. The Fiorelli racing team hires champions such as Ferdy Kubler, Jean Robic and Ugo Koblet.



-1954 Model (Simplex gearing)

Similar to above, little known, it was fitted with the very rare Simplex “juy 543” gearbox.


-1957 Model

Fiorelli bikes equip different teams, the most famous the Carpano-Coppi.

30% of the production was destined for the foreign market, in particular the American one. The production of motorcycles also began in 1951, with the company taking the name of Motovelo Fiorelli.

Since 1957, in collaboration with Fausto Coppi, the Coppi-Fiorelli line of bicycles has been created. In the sixties, annual production was 1000 mopeds and 20,000 bicycles. In 1988 the brand was taken over by the Masciaghi company and the company definitively ceased operations in 1990

Last edited by ejw; 11-27-21 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 11-29-21, 04:04 PM
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nice bike
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Old 11-30-21, 05:56 AM
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Please tell us you're going to restore the bike? It's a great bike and could be worth a lot on E-Bay if you got it restored.
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Old 11-30-21, 05:34 PM
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Nice bike
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Old 12-04-21, 12:53 PM
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Don't mean to hijack thread but I have a similar bike that I was wondering the same thing..
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Old 12-04-21, 12:54 PM
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