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Is a Paramount Bike Really Worth This?

Old 04-22-23, 12:40 PM
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RoadWearier
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Is a Paramount Bike Really Worth This?

Explain to a noob why this bike is worth $900. I understand they are nice for their time, but geez I could get a new/slightly used titanium/steel/aluminum/carbon for this much. So are there advantages to this one other than nostalgia?

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Old 04-22-23, 02:02 PM
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Earlier Paramounts would be worth this kind of coin. IMHO, not this generation. If youre asking this question, chances are the vintage bike world likely isn't your thing. Buy a modern bike and move on.
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Old 04-22-23, 03:22 PM
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If memory serves, this is a Japanese-built Panasonic frame with oversize tubing, early 90's. Effectively a much cheaper import with the Paramount name.

The Panasonic OS frames were nice rides, but not in the same league as the Waterford-built frames, which typically sold for three times the price.

Today it's the same price-wise, unless an unsuspecting buyer thinks they're getting the real deal just by the Paramount name alone. Happens more than you would suspect.

Best thing this bike has going for it is the 7400 group.
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Old 04-22-23, 04:53 PM
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That is a Waterford Paramount look at the fork crown, or go to the facebook page and look at the serial number. The import bikes all have unicrown forks.
Is it worth $900? it is in the ball park. Top end frame, top end group, easy to resell. Schwinn made between 500,000 and 2,000,000 bikes a year between 1960 and 1990.
300 to 5000 of then were Paramounts.. There are a lot of people collect Schwinns, law of suppily and demand keeps prices up. A new Waterford frame is about $3000. $900 in new bike is entry level. Go look at the bike if it fits you and you like it show him seven $100 bills. Add says make offer see what he has to say. You can always add twentys or fiftys, till it follows you home
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Old 04-22-23, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by nesteel
... If youre asking this question, chances are the vintage bike world likely isn't your thing. Buy a modern bike and move on.
...+1. The number of trolling threads, focused on the crazy old guys valuing this stuff over more modern technology, grows wearisome. I don't understand the appeal of this pastime. OP, buy what you like...that's what I do. It would probably be valuable for you to send the person trying to sell it a message, repeating your original post wording. I bet no one has ever done that on Facebook, before.
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Old 04-22-23, 05:52 PM
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...I mean, it says right on the forum title that this is
Classic and Vintage Bicycles: Appraisals. Use this subforum for all requests as to "How much is this vintage bike worth?
Why would you come here and start up a thread with:

I understand they are nice for their time, but geez I could get a new/slightly used titanium/steel/aluminum/carbon for this much. So are there advantages to this one other than nostalgia?
Buy what you value. If that's a carbon fiber reinforced plastic wonder bike that weighs 12 pounds, sports brifters, and has 12 cogs in the back, that's what you should be riding. Classic and vintage is old stuff, by definition.
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Old 04-22-23, 06:10 PM
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Nice bike but inappropriate for OP. It will find an appreciative home at somewhere near asking price.
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Old 04-22-23, 06:15 PM
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FS: Schwinn Waterford Paramount

Yes. Beautiful machines.
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Old 04-22-23, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
Nice bike but inappropriate for OP. It will find an appreciative home at somewhere near asking price.
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Old 04-22-23, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...+1. The number of trolling threads, focused on the crazy old guys valuing this stuff over more modern technology, grows wearisome. I don't understand the appeal of this pastime. OP, buy what you like...that's what I do. It would probably be valuable for you to send the person trying to sell it a message, repeating your original post wording. I bet no one has ever done that on Facebook, before.

​​​​​​I think you misunderstood. I'm not asking the question to troll. I was wondering what the advantage of this bike was and was it worth $900. That's all. Thanks
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Old 04-22-23, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by RoadWearier
​​​​​​I think you misunderstood. I'm not asking the question to troll. I was wondering what the advantage of this bike was and was it worth $900. That's all. Thanks
...what do you consider "advantages"? I want you to get the most bang for your buck.
When I look at it, I see a top of the line Waterford steel frame, kitted out with one of the best Dura Ace groups of those times.

It will not make you go faster. But it might go fast enough. It might be easier to maintain (depending on your mechanical abilities).
It as no disc brakes, so if you really want those, it won't work for you. But you will never have to bleed the brakes either.

Someone already mentioned the replacement cost of a Waterford steel frame...they still make and sell them to order. I'm not trying to convince you one way or the other about what it's worth to you. There are people who would probably pay that, for a clean example like the one pictured. Maybe there are not as many of them as there once were, but that's just a function of normal lifespan.

All the newer frame materials you mention in your original entry have advantages and disadvantages. This bicycle is no different in that regard.
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Old 04-22-23, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged
...

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Old 04-22-23, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by RoadWearier
Explain to a noob why this bike is worth $900. I understand they are nice for their time, but geez I could get a new/slightly used titanium/steel/aluminum/carbon for this much. So are there advantages to this one other than nostalgia?
Not quite worth $900 here, probably not in TN either. Seller probably saw a nicer Paramount listed for $1500, and figured listing for $1200 would sell fast, but now he's realizing that's not the case.

Gotta at least go find some BL-7400s to put on there!

But it's still way radder than a lot of $900 FBMP road bikes, so there is that.
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Old 04-22-23, 08:58 PM
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OK, so to answer your question: It’s a well built frame with a really good vintage component group. Certainly worth $700, could be worth more if it looks, presents, and rides as well as it photographs.

Unless you are a really accomplished rider (be honest, now) if will be just as fast and just as fun as a new bike costing twice as much. Or more.
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Old 04-23-23, 06:48 AM
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Ok great. This is all good info. I'm guessing Waterford steel is lighter(?), Stronger(?) Than 4140 chromoly? I like the idea that the components are durable and fixable. Too many things today, bikes included, are built to be used and tossed out after a few years. So there's that. And no I'm a 12-14mph rider, I'm not looking to contend for the Tour de France. Maybe I'll see if he'd take $400.
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Old 04-23-23, 07:06 AM
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Originally Posted by RoadWearier
Ok great. This is all good info. I'm guessing Waterford steel is lighter(?), Stronger(?) Than 4140 chromoly? I like the idea that the components are durable and fixable. Too many things today, bikes included, are built to be used and tossed out after a few years. So there's that. And no I'm a 12-14mph rider, I'm not looking to contend for the Tour de France. Maybe I'll see if he'd take $400.
Lots of good responses for your understanding of C&V.
Its not just a steel comparison but the maker, geometry, and build quality all contribute to the value and quality of the ride.
This is a PDG with classic dura ace components.
I think is a fair sale and there maybe some bargaining available but a $400 offer is a insult IMO.
Do what you want but hope you consider and appreciate the advice you are getting here.
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Old 04-23-23, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by joesch
Lots of good responses for your understanding of C&V.
Its not just a steel comparison but the maker, geometry, and build quality all contribute to the value and quality of the ride.
This is a PDG with classic dura ace components.
I think is a fair sale and there maybe some bargaining available but a $400 offer is a insult IMO.
Do what you want but hope you consider and appreciate the advice you are getting here.
I do appreciate the info very much. Thanks.
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Old 04-23-23, 09:27 AM
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As for weight and strength this Paramount frame set will be a bit lighter 1lb or so than a nice 4140 double butted frame set and about equal strength wise. The really nice build quality and OS tubing will make it a bit stiffer and more responsive ride than most steel frame sets. While I wouldn't you could put a carbon fiber fork and seat post on it to get a bit more modern feel to the ride.
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Old 04-23-23, 09:35 AM
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* 4130 guys
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Old 04-23-23, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by RoadWearier
Ok great. This is all good info. I'm guessing Waterford steel is lighter(?), Stronger(?) Than 4140 chromoly? I like the idea that the components are durable and fixable. Too many things today, bikes included, are built to be used and tossed out after a few years. So there's that. And no I'm a 12-14mph rider, I'm not looking to contend for the Tour de France. Maybe I'll see if he'd take $400.
$400 might be a little low if he just recently dropped the asking price to $900. But if he dropped it to $900 3 weeks ago the seller might take it or counter with $500...
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Old 04-23-23, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by RoadWearier
Ok great. This is all good info. I'm guessing Waterford steel is lighter(?), Stronger(?) Than 4140 chromoly? I like the idea that the components are durable and fixable. Too many things today, bikes included, are built to be used and tossed out after a few years. So there's that. And no I'm a 12-14mph rider, I'm not looking to contend for the Tour de France. Maybe I'll see if he'd take $400.
It has old-school down tube shifters. Something to consider ... not for everyone these days. I am "vintage" but converted my vintage bikes to modern drivetrains.
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Old 04-23-23, 11:50 AM
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Originally Posted by RoadWearier
Ok great. This is all good info. I'm guessing Waterford steel is lighter(?), Stronger(?) Than 4140 chromoly? I like the idea that the components are durable and fixable. Too many things today, bikes included, are built to be used and tossed out after a few years. So there's that. And no I'm a 12-14mph rider, I'm not looking to contend for the Tour de France. Maybe I'll see if he'd take $400.
...why do you want this bicycle, at all ? There are plenty of 4130 steel framed bikes in the used marketplace that you can get for less than $400. Buy yourself a Centurion Ironman, or almost any Asian manufactured frame with DT shifters and indexed shifting. Spend the money you save on food, or something essential to your well being. Why do you require panache ? Almost any quality Asian made bicycle from the 80's will meet your needs. To quote you, "What's the advantage ?"

This reminds me of the guy who turned a pretty nice Colnago road bike here into a fixed gear, because he got it cheap. Rode it over to Peet's in Midtown regularly, and parked it on the deck...to drink coffee.

I'll sell you this one for $300. Excellent mechanical and cosmetic condition, and a great ride.





addendum: I would consider it a great favor if you did not message the seller, and tell him you asked on Bike Forums. And everyone said it was only worth $400. TIA.

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Old 04-23-23, 12:32 PM
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hi jacking the thread......

that a 60cm CtC on the seatpost? .... and approx. how far is the Big Tomatoe from MoTown (aka Detroit)

(out of respect for what now looks like a reasonable politician, I like to add "e" to potatoe and tomatoe ....)

Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...why do you want this bicycle, at all ? There are plenty of 4130 steel framed bikes in the used marketplace that you can get for less than $400. Buy yourself a Centurion Ironman, or almost any Asian manufactured frame with DT shifters and indexed shifting. Spend the money you save on food, or something essential to your well being. Why do you require panache ? Almost any quality Asian made bicycle from the 80's will meet your needs. To quote you, "What's the advantage ?"

This reminds me of the guy who turned a pretty nice Colnago road bike here into a fixed gear, because he got it cheap. Rode it over to Peet's in Midtown regularly, and parked it on the deck...to drink coffee.

I'll sell you this one for $300. Excellent mechanical and cosmetic condition, and a great ride.





addendum: I would consider it a great favor if you did not message the seller, and tell him you asked on Bike Forums. And everyone said it was only worth $400. TIA.

.
.
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Old 04-23-23, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by mrv
hi jacking the thread......

that a 60cm CtC on the seatpost? .... and approx. how far is the Big Tomatoe from MoTown (aka Detroit)
...it's a 58. And Sacramento is too far from Detroit, to drive here to buy a bike. It is for sale currently on CL, though. As nice as it is, I suspect it will sell locally without too much problem. Unless I get a lot of "Would you take a hunnert bucks and all the change I have in my loose change jar ?" responses. I'm hesitant to predict. The online marketplace for bicycles is a jungle.
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Old 04-23-23, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...it's a 58. And Sacramento is too far from Detroit, to drive here to buy a bike. It is for sale currently on CL, though. As nice as it is, I suspect it will sell locally without too much problem. Unless I get a lot of "Would you take a hunnert bucks and all the change I have in my loose change jar ?" responses. I'm hesitant to predict. The online marketplace for bicycles is a jungle.
Thanks for the quick note back - in SE Michigan, we got easy access to lots of dirt roads, so it seems to me vintage road bikes are not selling well - or taking a long time. In norther Ohio a couple of BF members have some beautiful bikes for sale (Team Fuji, Centurions, other stuff on FaceBook tempting me....) . I keep watching them can't get quite where I'll pull the trigger. So I picked up a very beat up lugged Allez - possibly more of a project than I realized when I handed over my cash. It's a 58cm CtC, so the size up from my present road bike should work well. (but man, got some serious clean up to do. Possibly some brazing cable guides and repaint..... nuts).
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